GDP. Whatever we think up on accountability, that can't be it. We
don't know what the BoE has done as secrecy rules here
On Oct 19, 9:02 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I've been tempted by power, think I'm more fit for it than most (as
> far as honest self-reflection goes) and still think it's generally a
> mistake and almost inescapably animal (though even here there is a
> difference between Frodo and Freud amongst the chimps). What we need
> to escape is a 'libidinal economy' and the ease with which rationality
> is merely using cleverness to get one's way, even if through appeal to
> gullible electorates. My conclusion is we need to do away with the
> cult of richness and the great leader. Even the Lao Tsu notion of the
> mark of a good leader being that the people will think they did things
> for themselves can be perverted.
>
> I don't think we can perfect much socially - yet we could establish
> banking as a mere utility and recognise our factional politics aren't
> democracy - and we could have counterveilling institutions and
> organise work without work ethic fetish (we have to admit there are an
> awful lot of slackers). This all entails authority.
>
> Current economics and authority are Undead ducks and there's no point
> in putting ourselves through 'Animal Farm'. The most telling phrase I
> heard in the old Soviet Block after the wall fall was that the
> 'apparatchiks were become the entrepreneurchiks'. Some of the turds I
> worked with at the World Bank promised that the conversion to liberal
> capitalism would be over in 500 days -then 150 days. Meanwhile food
> prices quadrupled and wages and employment crashed. I was, of course,
> sacked (thank goodness I couldn't put up with the dross).
>
> 'All' we have to do is organise food supplies and wage-related wealth
> distribution - and it seems strange that this still means breaking the
> power of the rich - this may well only have slackened off in the west
> after the world wars and now be back with a vengeance (it definitely
> is in terms of what they own). I saw some Chinese dork saying the
> west would all have to work harder and longer - why should anyone have
> to given productivity rises in factors of ten since we all broke our
> backs in toil?
>
> On Oct 19, 7:16 pm, frantheman <francis.h...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Il faut cultiver notre jardin," said Voltaire's Candide, at the end
> > of a chain of ghastly experiences in the world of the 18th Century, a
> > world with many similarities to our own. In the end, a feeling of
> > disgust at the corruption of public life at all levels, combined with
> > a feeling of individual impotence, leads to a withdrawal from public
> > life to dedicate ourselves to our small private worlds, where there is
> > still a possibility of soldarity, concern, decency and human warmth.
>
> > Yet, thirty years after the publication of Voltaire's masterpiece, the
> > French Revolution (majorly inspired by ideas of many such as Voltaire)
> > erupted in Europe, changing all the paradigms. The ghastly
> > contradictions underlying much of what defines our modern societies
> > are becoming more evident and are giving rise to increasing
> > resistance; from the Arab Spring to the Occupy Wall St./Frankfurt/City/
> > etc. movements.
>
> > What worries me, among other things, is the lesson of history that
> > when systems finally collapse (or are torn down) as a result of
> > intolerable contradictions, the period of change leading to the
> > establishment of new paradigms is generally accompanied by terrible
> > suffering and death for millions - whether the Jacobin terror, or the
> > events in the wake of the February and October Revolutions in Russia.
>
> > And, of course, the fact that the same corrupt, cynical, corrupt
> > bastards and criminals either retain power (Talleyrand) or that even
> > worse clones of the same (Stalin) rise to the top ...
>
> > On 19 Okt., 19:25, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > I can't take it myself to be honest Chris. Derrida used to say we are
> > > in spirit positive. In Anglo-Saxon terms he was just a liberal, almost
> > > priestly as a bloke over a few beers. I was younger then, still able
> > > to knock things over and feel it was worth the bother. I suspect we
> > > don't understand "negation" very well. Gabby (bless) always has some
> > > - or it seems that way (I remember very positive support of me some
> > > years back) - and the question arising is when this becomes as much
> > > censorship as all the other stuff we might brand as that. It isn't
> > > "negation" or the sting of criticism that really gets to me, more
> > > selfish attitudes in what I feel as madness, triumphed as positive but
> > > perpetual children. I like kids and even childish behaviour as
> > > entertainment. I can't stand the failure of education in making a
> > > decent society of responsible adults.
> > > I've done a lot more than most in playing the game - £7 million in
> > > research/project grants doesn't come from admissions projects will
> > > fail in the business plan. But the critical eye has to admit the
> > > majority fail and I was often signing-off on lies. £9K for university
> > > tutoring (outside of science and engineering) goes to fund middle-
> > > class lifestyles of the university hangers-on not towards the
> > > education of the young person. When last full-time, I was teaching
> > > 100 FTEs at least (200 times £9K = £900K in fees leaving £810K after
> > > my costs). I could have done a better job for the students with
> > > properly organised distance learning and a 'university' organised
> > > around local pubs, theartres and sports clubs done through social
> > > media - the overhead costed at around £100K (electronic library
> > > etc.). A better education with much more opportunity for small
> > > business involvement and so on at under a third of the cost and one
> > > not building onerous debt. What is negative in this? And sadly, the
> > > answer is easy middle-class incomes. I can go on an explain how even
> > > these would not be affected as we could expand more practical
> > > education and work development. I'm talking here of a more social,
> > > more tutor supported education better than the expensive, debt-
> > > producing fantasy we're forcing kids into. And one with lots of local
> > > creative possibilities with less bureaucracy and vastly increased
> > > 'civic' involvement.
> > > You have to 'deconstruct' to get to the above idea - and elsewhere in
> > > terms of stuff like agricultural and manufacturing productivity we
> > > have done this with little thought on the jobs lost by workers -
> > > indeed we've run roughshod over 'them'. The point in the negation
> > > should be positive - about the use of efficiency for general well-
> > > being and the creation of wider prosperity, probably redefined.
>
> > > What's hard, Chris, is facing-up to what life means to most people -
> > > the economics I've never taught (but colleagues have from a single
> > > text book) leads to a few very rich and the rest in debt-rent-mortgage
> > > peonage and the arms' race. It must be obvious we barely have even
> > > capitalism. It would be great to be able to ignore politics and the
> > > status quo, but we need to build so we can. The old phrase from the
> > > 50's (I only know from reading) was 'structuring freedom'. The human
> > > population has tripled since I was born (I reject personal, intimate
> > > responsibility!) - all very 'free' - producing planet burning and soon
> > > 'competition for air'. Raising questions about how complex freedom
> > > is.
>
> > > The weight on us - if we think for improved practice - is complexity
> > > that most use simple Idols on to make their sense. I played rugby and
> > > was a cop. The whole Bradford Northern front row were less
> > > intimidating than the mad munter of some low-life I might nick with a
> > > bread knife. The rules and structure of the competition allow rugby -
> > > but what rules and structure would allow a decent society. Not every
> > > claim can count in trying to do that do should, in principle be heard
> > > so we don't 'go total' like some Spanish Fascit (fair typo) stealing
> > > babies from their ideologically unsound mothers.
>
> > > I guess that fear is the load we are experiencing - maybe like that of
> > > animals in hierarchies under all kinds of complex leader power - just
> > > look what cockroaches and bees do to members in their 'reaching
> > > consensus rules'. Even the really positive is negative - we can now
> > > support human life without much effort - so why do we need poverty?
> > > That would destroy the motivation of the rest of us now, wouldn't it?
> > > The most obvious fact in the world is that most of what we claim we
> > > want as moral individuals needs a change in what society is and what
> > > people can aspire to as persons in it - otherwise we head to the usual
> > > human solution, war.
>
> > > Maybe I should 'out Dilbert' Scott Adams, you do some illustrations
> > > and pics, and we should watch the fireworks from Bermuda? I like the
> > > shadows in Bermuda.
>
> > > On Oct 19, 3:56 pm, Chris Jenkins <digitalprecip...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > I've never had someone so casually create a crushing despair in me, Neil.
> > > > Your writing has always affected me greatly, but the sense of general
> > > > futility that is often expressed weighs a ton. As someone who still holds
> > > > out hope for society's betterment, your words often feel like mountains on
> > > > my head.The sense of truth in them, I think, is what gives them so much
> > > > weight.
>
> > > > On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 4:25 PM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > The smell of authority gets up my nose however disguised Gabby - we've
> > > > > just seen an example in rugby union with a Welsh player sent off for a
> > > > > decent tackle and then banned for three games to reinforce the
> > > > > referee's authority. It all reeks of what people do given authority.
> > > > > Sport hardly matters, but the example is good. I don't know what's
> > > > > happening in Detroit. I do know that in Spain a ring...
>
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