in spirit positive. In Anglo-Saxon terms he was just a liberal, almost
priestly as a bloke over a few beers. I was younger then, still able
to knock things over and feel it was worth the bother. I suspect we
don't understand "negation" very well. Gabby (bless) always has some
- or it seems that way (I remember very positive support of me some
years back) - and the question arising is when this becomes as much
censorship as all the other stuff we might brand as that. It isn't
"negation" or the sting of criticism that really gets to me, more
selfish attitudes in what I feel as madness, triumphed as positive but
perpetual children. I like kids and even childish behaviour as
entertainment. I can't stand the failure of education in making a
decent society of responsible adults.
I've done a lot more than most in playing the game - £7 million in
research/project grants doesn't come from admissions projects will
fail in the business plan. But the critical eye has to admit the
majority fail and I was often signing-off on lies. £9K for university
tutoring (outside of science and engineering) goes to fund middle-
class lifestyles of the university hangers-on not towards the
education of the young person. When last full-time, I was teaching
100 FTEs at least (200 times £9K = £900K in fees leaving £810K after
my costs). I could have done a better job for the students with
properly organised distance learning and a 'university' organised
around local pubs, theartres and sports clubs done through social
media - the overhead costed at around £100K (electronic library
etc.). A better education with much more opportunity for small
business involvement and so on at under a third of the cost and one
not building onerous debt. What is negative in this? And sadly, the
answer is easy middle-class incomes. I can go on an explain how even
these would not be affected as we could expand more practical
education and work development. I'm talking here of a more social,
more tutor supported education better than the expensive, debt-
producing fantasy we're forcing kids into. And one with lots of local
creative possibilities with less bureaucracy and vastly increased
'civic' involvement.
You have to 'deconstruct' to get to the above idea - and elsewhere in
terms of stuff like agricultural and manufacturing productivity we
have done this with little thought on the jobs lost by workers -
indeed we've run roughshod over 'them'. The point in the negation
should be positive - about the use of efficiency for general well-
being and the creation of wider prosperity, probably redefined.
What's hard, Chris, is facing-up to what life means to most people -
the economics I've never taught (but colleagues have from a single
text book) leads to a few very rich and the rest in debt-rent-mortgage
peonage and the arms' race. It must be obvious we barely have even
capitalism. It would be great to be able to ignore politics and the
status quo, but we need to build so we can. The old phrase from the
50's (I only know from reading) was 'structuring freedom'. The human
population has tripled since I was born (I reject personal, intimate
responsibility!) - all very 'free' - producing planet burning and soon
'competition for air'. Raising questions about how complex freedom
is.
The weight on us - if we think for improved practice - is complexity
that most use simple Idols on to make their sense. I played rugby and
was a cop. The whole Bradford Northern front row were less
intimidating than the mad munter of some low-life I might nick with a
bread knife. The rules and structure of the competition allow rugby -
but what rules and structure would allow a decent society. Not every
claim can count in trying to do that do should, in principle be heard
so we don't 'go total' like some Spanish Fascit (fair typo) stealing
babies from their ideologically unsound mothers.
I guess that fear is the load we are experiencing - maybe like that of
animals in hierarchies under all kinds of complex leader power - just
look what cockroaches and bees do to members in their 'reaching
consensus rules'. Even the really positive is negative - we can now
support human life without much effort - so why do we need poverty?
That would destroy the motivation of the rest of us now, wouldn't it?
The most obvious fact in the world is that most of what we claim we
want as moral individuals needs a change in what society is and what
people can aspire to as persons in it - otherwise we head to the usual
human solution, war.
Maybe I should 'out Dilbert' Scott Adams, you do some illustrations
and pics, and we should watch the fireworks from Bermuda? I like the
shadows in Bermuda.
On Oct 19, 3:56 pm, Chris Jenkins <digitalprecip...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I've never had someone so casually create a crushing despair in me, Neil.
> Your writing has always affected me greatly, but the sense of general
> futility that is often expressed weighs a ton. As someone who still holds
> out hope for society's betterment, your words often feel like mountains on
> my head.The sense of truth in them, I think, is what gives them so much
> weight.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 4:25 PM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > The smell of authority gets up my nose however disguised Gabby - we've
> > just seen an example in rugby union with a Welsh player sent off for a
> > decent tackle and then banned for three games to reinforce the
> > referee's authority. It all reeks of what people do given authority.
> > Sport hardly matters, but the example is good. I don't know what's
> > happening in Detroit. I do know that in Spain a ring of bastards
> > (priests, nuns, doctors) removed 40,000 kids from their parents and
> > adopted through mass baby trafficking beyond the Fascists. I was
> > tempted once to become an anarcho-existential organisational
> > practitioner and break some windows from the inside, but somehow
> > jargon remains with the same smell.
> > Molly's got a point - the problem is that words so rarely match what
> > happens. The gadfly of irony loses its sting too,much as increasing
> > lexicon (equafinality, artifactuality etc.) ... and paradigms of
> > synergy fade in the dust of asset strippers.
>
> > So where are the solutions we might express?
>
> > On Oct 18, 8:15 pm, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Puh, this is the flowery version of "I am against dualism" (compare: All
> > > power plays are based in these memes because they require opposition),
> > which
> > > is understandable if the writer gets payed by the line. Whereby the scent
> > of
> > > power being related to hierarchies is decently overtoned, now isn't that
> > > lovely. No mod here has the power over the ban button, this is me here
> > > trolling and spreading an unpleasant odor. Puh, could someone please
> > > let in some fresh air?
>
> > > On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 1:16 PM, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Power relations work only in a group with leadership who's view is
> > > > based on power and the idea that "i" or "we" can have more or less
> > > > than "you." There are views that realize that every group operates
> > > > holistically, and the flow of operation and pinnacle of achievement is
> > > > not dependent on power but synergy. A savvy leader knows the group
> > > > members potentiality, talent, perceived limitation, resources etc.,
> > > > and creates the conditions necessary for every and all to move beyond
> > > > them as a whole. It takes a big picture view of how each person
> > > > operates and where the group fits in the community (whole). A group
> > > > with such leadership can become a change agent. The leadership
> > > > understands that power is a misnomer, as it is not power that fuels
> > > > the group effort, but synergy.
>
> > > > Given, not all groups operate like this. Not everyone has realized
> > > > the fallacious nature of "power." Fallacious because we indeed are
> > > > operating as a whole on the more subtle levels. Our view can distort
> > > > what is really occurring, because it is often too narrow (egocentric -
> > > > me against them- or ethnocentric - us against them.) All power plays
> > > > are based in these memes because they require opposition. Leaders who
> > > > allow the talent in the group to emerge and mentor, who can inspire
> > > > group vision and keep the group focused to it, who recognized each
> > > > individual contribution and potential and provide resources necessary
> > > > for fulfillment are indeed rare. But they are emerging whether by
> > > > necessity of a higher calling.
>
> > > > I find it interesting that here in Detroit, Mayor Bing, who receives a
> > > > whopping $.90 annual salary, has done more to allow the worldcentric
> > > > leadership of the city to emerge than anyone in the history of the
> > > > city. His critics say that he has not made any tangible change
> > > > although you don't have to look far to see that he has. He operates
> > > > at a much higher meme than our President, although I suspect that the
> > > > conditions of the world might not be ready for any other than a power
> > > > based person in the Presidency.
>
> > > > Power relations are inevitable in groups whose members know no other
> > > > way. But there are other ways and other views.
>
> > > > On Oct 17, 7:00 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > I think we have to admit to some inevitability of power relations -
> > > > > objectivity gets as invasive as bully-power if we aren't careful.
>
> > > > > On Oct 17, 2:27 pm, James Lynch <ashkas...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > Personal power seems part and parcel to living authentically
> > (whatever
> > > > > > that might mean), motive and intent buried in the basis of
> > authority.
> > > > > > I take your meaning is that there are a few deeply rooted memes for
> > a
> > > > > > weak basis on authority, and it makes me wonder about how we assess
> > a
> > > > > > disproportionate amount of authority on achievement and how this
> > gets
> > > > > > corrupted by the apparent values celebrated in our society. Is this
> > in
> > > > > > dissonance with nature, I wonder, or are we as mesmerized by it as
> > the
> > > > > > bird or fish to a shiny object. I'm trying to scrap out a few
> > > > > > paragraphs here and there on rhetoric and writing to get a grasp of
> > my
> > > > > > own, hopefully it will light a fire under my pen. An act of
> > futility
> > > > > > perhaps..
>
> > > > > > On 10/15/11, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > I don't think we are all stuck. Certainly there are many memes
> > that
> > > > > > > are, and many that are not. Spiral Dynamics is a good model that
> > > > > > > allows us to understand the states and stages of humanity, and
> > how we
> > > > > > > each spiral up and down them in our lifetime. Someone who can't
> > see
> > > > > > > past their ethnocentric or egocentric view will play the power
> > card.
>
> > > > > > > On Oct 14, 10:42 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > >> I once lived amongst mice - it was a university psychology
> > thingy.
> > > > I
> > > > > > >> first wondered why the subordinate mice didn't overthrow the
> > king
> > > > > > >> mouse and he (he was always male) always kept his crew in
> > vicious
> > > > > > >> check ans "poverty". I knew the underling males could be
> > trained
> > > > and
> > > > > > >> fed to defeat him. Later I just saw that nothing changed except
> > the
> > > > > > >> identity of the king mouse. I grew to quite like individual
> > mice
> > > > but
> > > > > > >> not the mouse society.
> > > > > > >> Currently, though we have an extensive understanding of genetic-
> > > > > > >> environment-evolution stuff - sufficient at least to make most
> > > > nature-
> > > > > > >> nurture debate old hat - we are still stuck in a
> > misunderstanding of
> > > > > > >> our animal situation and in dire myths that hide the nature of
> > > > motives
> > > > > > >> even from those who lay claim to extirpate ideology. One wants
> > to
> > > > > > >> live and let live, yet this is never enough. We need 'power' of
> > > > some
> > > > > > >> kind to negate power itself - or fatalism.
>
> > > > > > >> On Oct 14, 2:03 pm, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > >> > Though motives can work themselves into a snarl- like yarn or
> > > > string-
> > > > > > >> > and one often needs time (maturity and education) to follow
> > the
> > > > path
> > > > > > >> > backwards. (The Labyrinth myth comes to mind.)
>
> > > > > > >> > On Oct 14, 1:36 am, RP Singh <123...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > >> > > Man is bound by God through genetics , environment etc. ,
> > but
> > > > all of
> > > > > > >> > > it so hidden that to an individual he is absolutely free ,
> > and
> > > > free he
> > > > > > >> > > is as he is the agent , it is he who decides and acts and as
> > > > such the
> > > > > > >> > > bonds beings so subtle as to be unconscious , he is
> > consciously
> > > > doing
> > > > > > >> > > everything freely.If we can be aware of our real motives we
> > can
> > > > > > >> > > control our actions to some degree and it is in that way
> > that
> > > > > > >> > > knowledge of our hidden motives can help us.
>
> > > > > > >> > > On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 11:41 PM, archytas <
> > nwte...@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > > I like the theme RP - but what of being 'bound' by
> > > > > > >> > > > genetics/evolution/
> > > > > > >> > > > environment - which gives some clues on how to escape
> > through
> > > > > > >> > > > knowledge?
>
> > > > > > >> > > > On Oct 13, 4:30 pm, RP Singh <123...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > >> It is God who binds you and not you yourself , and so you
> > are
> > > > > > >> > > >> accountable to yourself and society , but not to God. In
> > this
> > > > world
> > > > > > >> > > >> you are doing everything freely , but in God's presence
> > you
> > > > are
> > > > > > >> > > >> just a
> > > > > > >> > > >> puppet. If I am bound to err , it doesn't absolve me of
> > the
> > > > action
> > > > > > >> > > >> as
> > > > > > >> > > >> it has been done by me , and if you hurt me , again you
> > are
> > > > > > >> > > >> accountable for it as it is done by you. It is only in
> > God's
> > > > > > >> > > >> presence
> > > > > > >> > > >> that you are innocent as you are a puppet in his hand ,
> > but
> > > > in
> > > > > > >> > > >> man's
> > > > > > >> > > >> world you are accountable and responsible for every
> > action
> > > > unless
> > > > > > >> > > >> society frees you of that responsibility on the grounds
> > of
> > > > insanity
> > > > > > >> > > >> on
> > > > > > >> > > >> your part. You are always the agent and as such always
> > > > responsible
> > > > > > >> > > >> for
> > > > > > >> > > >> your every action and inaction.
>
> > > > > > >> > > >> On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 8:36 PM, Vam <
> > atewari2...@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > >> > When everything is predetermined... and if we all
> > accept
> > > > that as
>
> ...
>
> read more »
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