world science and common sense rules. There are millions of people now
, who though being quite moral , do not take the scriptures to be the
final word. Ultimately , a man is selfish but the truth is that many
of us think beyond our personal ends to the larger good of the society
, and if that is what we want to do , our very self-interest becomes
humanitarian in effect.
On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 10:05 AM, Vam <atewari2007@gmail.com> wrote:
> From Brihadaranyaka Upanishad ( one of the oldest ) :
>
> "Verily, not for the sake of the husband, my dear, is the husband
> loved, but he is loved for the sake of the self which, in its true
> nature, is one with the Supreme Self.
>
> "Verily, not for the sake of the wife, my dear, is the wife loved, but
> she is loved for the sake of the self.
>
> "Verily, not for the sake of the sons, my dear, are the sons loved,
> hut they are loved for the sake of the self.
>
> "Verily, not for the sake of wealth, my dear, is wealth loved, but it
> is loved for the sake of the self.
>
> "Verily, not for the sake of the brahmin, my dear, is the brahmin
> loved, but he is loved for the sake of the self.
>
> "Verily, not for the sake of the kshatriya, my dear, is the kshatriya
> loved, but he is loved for the sake of the self.
>
> "Verily, not for the sake of the worlds, my dear, are the worlds
> loved, but they are loved for the sake of the self.
>
> "Verily, not for the sake of the gods, my dear, are the gods loved,
> but they are loved for the sake of the self.
>
> "Verily, not for the sake of the beings, my dear, are the beings
> loved, but they are loved for the sake of the self.
>
> Verily, not for the sake of the All, my dear, is the All loved, but it
> is loved for the sake of the self.
>
> "Verily, my dear Maitreyi, it is the Self that should be realized—
> should be heard of, reflected on, and meditated upon.
>
> By the realization of the Self, my dear—through hearing, reflection,
> and meditation—all this is known.
>
> On Oct 23, 11:55 pm, RP Singh <123...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> To feel concern for others or love , is a human feeling and a person
>> tries to better the lot of the less fortunate. There is nothing
>> Eastern or Western about this , but it is only a humane sentiment and
>> is common to all societies. If I make the lives of a few others happy
>> I feel happy about it , but that doesn't mean that my behavior is
>> self-centered , rather it would be so if I acted for my personal
>> well-being at the expense of others.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 11:54 PM, Vam <atewari2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > I do not understand much that has been said here... really.
>>
>> > What I can make out is this talk of doing something "for others." This
>> > is shit. You don't do anything for others, because you can't. You can
>> > only do something for yourself. Now, if you believe that owning half
>> > the world or a huge mansion, or a carpeting that takes you 3" into the
>> > ground is what you want to do for yourself... then that's what you'll
>> > do !
>>
>> > The entire suggestion of doing something for others rests on the
>> > premise that that's what makes me happy. If it doesn't, then one
>> > wouldn't do it. And, even if one does because one is forced to do, it
>> > wouldn't make one happy. Which doesn't help the person... in his
>> > becoming happy !
>>
>> > That's the Eastern thing... I help others because I want to help
>> > myself... because that's the only way I can help myself !
>>
>> > On Oct 23, 4:48 pm, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >> Somewhat related:
>>
>> >> "42
>>
>> >> Note how perverse is the attitude of the weak toward their
>> >> benefactors. They feel generosity as oppression; they want to
>> >> retaliate. They say to their benefactors: ' May the day come when you
>> >> shall be weak and we will send bundles to America.'
>>
>> >> You do not win the weak by sharing your wealth with them; it will but
>> >> infect them with greed and resentment. You can win the weak only by
>> >> sharing your pride, hope or hatred with them."
>>
>> >> from "The Passionate State of Mind" By Eric Hoffer
>>
>> >> On Oct 22, 8:42 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> > One could hold Marx accountable for the horrors of the Soviet Union
>> >> > and China under Mao. Not his economic analysis but some of
>> >> > revolutionary urging - though surely countless abuses by the "noble
>> >> > class" are worse. I did some shameful stuff handling informants in
>> >> > our stupid war in Northern Ireland, excusing it at the time under a
>> >> > greater good I now know false. We ran an even bloodier war in
>> >> > Indonesia (28,000 dead) most in the UK were not aware of at the time
>> >> > and many don't know about now (though it's no longer secret).
>>
>> >> > I've been led to believe we can't really discuss much on society
>> >> > unless we address the realities of world power and its links to the
>> >> > money system the rich dominate. Otherwise one more or less cops out
>> >> > and makes a living. Teaching has led me to realise how scant my own
>> >> > knowledge is, but also the lack of interest most people have in
>> >> > learning more than what gets them by.
>>
>> >> > We now have the technology to show how many things link up and that
>> >> > the "riches" developed in a shadow banking system that is bigger than
>> >> > the real economy several times over are fictitious and merely suck
>> >> > value out of toil - and the same technology could also regulate the
>> >> > economy through 'transparent money' - instead it's used for the
>> >> > opposite purpose and also supports the military complex. This is
>> >> > obvious but people still don't get it.
>>
>> >> > On Oct 22, 7:47 pm, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> > > Life is always full of cause and effects. Everyone is accountable for the
>> >> > > effects caused by their actions,, even if you claim to have no choice....
>> >> > > Allan
>>
>> >> > > On Sat, Oct 22, 2011 at 7:48 PM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > > > People 'escape' responsibility in fictitious ways all the time RP -
>> >> > > > though I agree that inevitably one can't. I'm always saddened by
>> >> > > > those who stress we should have communism or capitalism and can't see
>> >> > > > there is some kind of loop. They want to reduce everything to a kind
>> >> > > > of baby-talk more appropriate to sport locker rooms than responsible
>> >> > > > dialogue. The escape from responsibility is into world-views that
>> >> > > > exclude the other and especially consequences for others.
>>
>> >> > > > On Oct 22, 6:26 pm, RP Singh <123...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > > > > To be held accountable for one's actions , doesn't it look scary when
>> >> > > > > you know you couldn't have done otherwise given your personality at
>> >> > > > > the given time and the circumstances. Yet we cannot escape
>> >> > > > > responsibility !
>>
>> >> > > > > On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 11:41 PM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > > > > > I like the theme RP - but what of being 'bound' by genetics/evolution/
>> >> > > > > > environment - which gives some clues on how to escape through
>> >> > > > > > knowledge?
>>
>> >> > > > > > On Oct 13, 4:30 pm, RP Singh <123...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > > > > >> It is God who binds you and not you yourself , and so you are
>> >> > > > > >> accountable to yourself and society , but not to God. In this world
>> >> > > > > >> you are doing everything freely , but in God's presence you are just a
>> >> > > > > >> puppet. If I am bound to err , it doesn't absolve me of the action as
>> >> > > > > >> it has been done by me , and if you hurt me , again you are
>> >> > > > > >> accountable for it as it is done by you. It is only in God's presence
>> >> > > > > >> that you are innocent as you are a puppet in his hand , but in man's
>> >> > > > > >> world you are accountable and responsible for every action unless
>> >> > > > > >> society frees you of that responsibility on the grounds of insanity on
>> >> > > > > >> your part. You are always the agent and as such always responsible for
>> >> > > > > >> your every action and inaction.
>>
>> >> > > > > >> On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 8:36 PM, Vam <atewari2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > > > > >> > When everything is predetermined... and if we all accept that as
>> >> > > > > >> > fact... accountability is without meaning !
>>
>> >> > > > > >> > Accountability has a meaning when I have a choice in the matter, and
>> >> > > > > >> > if I am aware of that personal freedom.
>>
>> >> > > > > >> > On Oct 13, 7:46 pm, RP Singh <123...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > > > > >> >> When everything is predetermined , the obvious truth that it is man
>> >> > > > > >> >> who is acting , makes man accountable to man and society and not
>> >> > > > to
>> >> > > > > >> >> God.
>>
>> >> > > > > >> >> On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 8:10 PM, Vam <atewari2...@gmail.com>
>> >> > > > wrote:
>> >> > > > > >> >> > But I couldn't see the rational thread between the "God alone..."
>> >> > > > > >> >> > premise and its "Man alone..." derivative !
>>
>> >> > > > > >> >> > On Oct 13, 7:20 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > > > > >> >> >> I rather like the idea RP, of the corollary.
>>
>> >> > > > > >> >> >> On Oct 13, 3:02 pm, RP Singh <123...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> > > > > >> >> >> > AS everything good and evil is done by God's dictates and
>> >> > > > everything
>> >> > > > > >> >> >> > that a man endures is from God's pleasure , the corollary
>> >> > > > follows --
>> >> > > > > >> >> >> > whatever a man does , he is free to do and accountable to man
>> >> > > > and
>> >> > > > > >> >> >> > society.
>>
>> >> > > --
>> >> > > (
>> >> > > )
>> >> > > |_D Allan
>>
>> >> > > Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> >> > - Show quoted text -
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