Re: Mind's Eye Towards a modern morality

That would include revolutionary America, I presume, if you were the
British Empire or the Confederacy or Mexico/Spain or Hawaii- that's
where language comes in for justification. Eco writes of the groups
within society vying for control in his essay on the consolation of
philosophy- I think Foucault deals with vocabulary stealths. Munitions
are quite profitable as an industry and quite impersonal.//Religion
was once the provocateur- seizure of territory and raw materials,
another. Polititians are no longer titans with the advance of
technology/communications and the other biggie is science which is
amoral. Some might say celebrities and highly paid sports figures,
etc. are the new aristocracy but this tier has always been transitory-
here today-gone tomorrow. Also interesting are the security groups
like Blackwater that operate under the radar.

On May 20, 2:14 pm, "pol.science kid" <r.freeb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> speaking of morality... what do you think of terrorism, and insurgency in
> countries.. how they justify their violence ... in fact the most outrageous
> justification of violence is by the governments today.... but still...
>
>
>
> On Sun, May 20, 2012 at 1:18 PM, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I do think the moral compass is lost, well more buried under a bunch of
> > garbage.  People are more interested in their finances and how the stock
> > market is doing.   Or only the projects of their church..  leaving out
> > those that do not belong  aka members... and you have to remember we are
> > the old farts Neil that are guiding the nations. We all have made difficult
> > choices over the years, oddly enough some how the world is going to survive
> > the terrorism of religions and economics. some how we will make it through
> > all the mess we created.
> > Allan
>
> > On Sun, May 20, 2012 at 2:09 AM, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> The "good old days" were still lousey for most of humanity- unless you
> >> are referring to your own youth as a golden time of life.//Our
> >> earliest morals come from our parents usually and they are "tested"
> >> against religion and society plus one's own nature- often leading to
> >> rebellion and trial and error. Errors are costly and they often repeat
> >> themselves until you learn your lesson.//There are lists of many
> >> beyond the age of 60 that have continued to create and contribute to
> >> society so that notion is relative.//We cannot control the factors of
> >> an age- wars, depressions, waste, etc. but we can influence a small
> >> circle.//Universal ignorance and superstition didn't work either.:-)
>
> >> On May 19, 3:36 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > What I'm thinking is that we get our moral decision-making very
> >> > wrong.  Every generation ends up as old farts with notions modern
> >> > youth is chronic and desiring a return to the good old days.  We don't
> >> > see our pathetic failures as contributing.  Moral judgement is left in
> >> > the domain of Idols.  Given universal education hasn't worked, we
> >> > might try a new set of Idols that are at least modern.
>
> >> > On May 19, 9:09 am, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> > > > " The reason I think we need to review morality and come up with a
> >> modern
> >> > > > one is that I find almost no one can understand stuff like this. "
>
> >> > > May I suggest an alternative:
>
> >> > > I think the purpose of morality needs to be understood by every
> >> individual,
> >> > > which is why the main purpose of education is not to forget to always
> >> keep
> >> > > this door open. These are our real debts.
>
> >> > > On Sat, May 19, 2012 at 2:04 AM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > > > I don't mind being backward Gabby.  I don't, of course, propose any
> >> > > > return to the kind of religion suffered by so many for so long and
> >> the
> >> > > > often revolting treatment of women.  Here is a fairly simple
> >> treatment
> >> > > > of much that's been going wrong in the financial system.
>
> >> > > > "While most economists agree that the world is facing the worst
> >> > > > economic crisis since the
> >> > > > Great Depression, there is little agreement as to what caused it.
> >> Some
> >> > > > have argued that
> >> > > > the financial instability we are witnessing is due to irrational
> >> > > > exuberance of market
> >> > > > participants, fraud, greed, too much regulation, et cetera. However,
> >> > > > some Post Keynesian
> >> > > > economists following Hyman P. Minsky have argued that this is a
> >> > > > systemic problem, a
> >> > > > result of internal market processes that allowed fragility to build
> >> > > > over time. In this paper
> >> > > > we focus on the shift to the "shadow banking system" and the
> >> creation
> >> > > > of what Minsky
> >> > > > called the money manager phase of capitalism. In this system, rapid
> >> > > > growth of leverage
> >> > > > and financial layering allowed the financial sector to claim an
> >> ever-
> >> > > > rising proportion of
> >> > > > national income—what is sometimes called "financialization"—as the
> >> > > > financial system
> >> > > > evolved from hedge to speculative and, finally, to a Ponzi scheme.
> >> > > > The policy response to the financial crisis in the United States and
> >> > > > elsewhere has
> >> > > > largely been an attempt to rescue money manager capitalism.
> >> Moreover,
> >> > > > in the case of the
> >> > > > United States. the bailout policy has contributed to further
> >> > > > concentration of the financial
> >> > > > sector, increasing dangers. We believe that the policies directed at
> >> > > > saving the system are
> >> > > > doomed to fail—and that alternative policies should be adopted. The
> >> > > > effective solution
> >> > > > should come in the way of downsizing the financial sector by two-
> >> > > > thirds or more, and
> >> > > > effecting fundamental modifications."
> >> > > > explain
> >> > > > The paper can be found at the Levi Institute along with loads more.
> >> > > > The rub is that banking is mostly parasitic and we need a return to
> >> > > > primitive banking that supports productive projects.  The reason I
> >> > > > think we need to review morality and come up with a modern one is
> >> that
> >> > > > I find almost no one can understand stuff like this. One can barely
> >> > > > get students to look up the papers and our news programmes are aimed
> >> > > > at a teenage mentality.  We are both over-complicating and
> >> > > > trivialising decision making so that ordinary people can't take part
> >> > > > other than as voting dupes.  The pressures on me are not to explain
> >> so
> >> > > > most people can understand, but to take part in esoteric debate to
> >> > > > earn my academic corn.  Pol Kid sets out some of the dangers and
> >> Gabby
> >> > > > often has - yet if we are to retain democracy (I'm not a fan, but it
> >> > > > sure beats not being able to vote - though here in the UK I never
> >> have
> >> > > > a real vote) we have to find ways to stop it being abused by a
> >> > > > financial-political class.
>
> >> > > > My own suspicion is that rational debate is essentially violent and
> >> > > > hence doomed to fail other than as a domination strategy (or as
> >> > > > refined chattering). There are structural answers about - such as
> >> > > > having the people make law and government administer it.  There have
> >> > > > been at least half-way successful changes in, say, feminism and gay
> >> > > > rights (surely moral causes both in repression and emancipation
> >> > > > stages).  I would recommend 'The Life and Times of Colonel Blimp' to
> >> > > > get in the swing of things and begin to consider how 'there is no
> >> > > > alternative' mentalities screw us.
>
> >> > > > On May 18, 7:45 pm, "pol.science kid" <r.freeb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > > > > no i guess Schopenhauer said.. religion is philosophy of the
> >> masses...
>
> >> > > > > On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 11:48 PM, pol.science kid <
> >> r.freeb...@gmail.com
> >> > > > >wrote:
>
> >> > > > > d the generally revolting treatment of women
>
> >> > > > > > Your post touches many relevant points.. but right now the
> >> point about
> >> > > > > > religion comes to my mind... its true religion has been a
> >> source of
> >> > > > > > morality for the most people...like it was schopenhauer(?) who
> >> > > > > > said religion was the morality or ethics of  the masses.. dont
> >> remember
> >> > > > > > clearly ... anyways... see what i observe is.. the ethical hold
> >> of
> >> > > > religion
> >> > > > > > is fast disappearing...i rather see religion being appropriated
> >> for
> >> > > > > > political propaganda..or communal menace... plus.. i wonder how
> >> you can
> >> > > > > > remove religion form the past legacy in invoking it for morality
> >> > > > afresh...
> >> > > > > > religion does not have a glorius history.. i dont know really
> >> know..
> >> > > > havent
> >> > > > > > read religious history... i often wonder how it would be if
> >> there was a
> >> > > > > > community.. functioning politically, terrtorially integrated and
> >> > > > sovereign
> >> > > > > > composed of all atheist people...   i guess our brains or minds
> >> are too
> >> > > > > > steeped in history to be entirely radical(Routine and
> >> familiarity have
> >> > > > > > such a powerful hold)... how many would support the system of
> >> ethics
> >> > > > not
> >> > > > > > enforced by an idea of the divine or sacred.. or God.. but it
> >> would be
> >> > > > > > wonderful if we had something of the 'Kantian' ethics .. based
> >> on
> >> > > > > > humanity... i wonder if any doctrine to live by has the force of
> >> > > > religion..
> >> > > > > > is religion a condition of the mind? i guess any system can turn
> >> > > > > > tyrannical..
> >> > > > > > from a personal example- i had a friend.. who was an atheist..
> >> a very
> >> > > > > > radical dude..until.. he suddenly changed.. we find out after
> >> one
> >> > > > summer
> >> > > > > > break hes turned into a devout christian(going to church
> >> regularly and
> >> > > > > > sometimes quoting stuff from the bible!)..we totally freaked
> >> out.. see
> >> > > > he
> >> > > > > > was originally from a tribe...their own tribal religion was
> >> sort of
> >> > > > weak he
> >> > > > > > had once told us... but to continue.. all our friends had a very
> >> > > > negative
> >> > > > > > reaction to his sudden change... though none of us were really
> >> > > > atheists we
> >> > > > > > sort of had an aversion to devout practising of religion... it
> >> was also
> >> > > > > > weird because he was an atheist... and then suddenly hes so
> >> full of
> >> > > > faith
> >> > > > > > and everything... our reaction was wrong..though it didnt ruin
> >> our
> >> > > > > > friendship(we stilll loved him and realised we were being
> >> fools).. in
> >> > > > our
> >> > > > > > rush to be free of all this dogma and superstiton sorrounding
> >> us  we
>
> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -