Re: Mind's Eye Towards a modern morality

A six thousand year cycle takes a while Neil, 10 or 12ish I think was
the temple of Osiris' FOL, 18ish was something big with the tribes or
species I think (other than/coinciding domestication of animals). I'm
sure a pro could inform us but isn't there something important around
40kBC(E)? Very vague memories, I am uneducated as well but isn't it the
celestial age of Aquarius beginning now?

PS Sorry for that last message, I was having a hard time keeping
personal things from interfering and had to excuse myself. Ahh,
challenges. :)

On 5/24/2012 5:54 PM, archytas wrote:
> According to both the Mayan and Hindu calendars, 2012 (or something
> very close) marks the transition from an age of darkness, violence and
> greed to one of enlightenment, justice and peace. I don't go for
> predictionology, but I do think we need a sea change in the way we
> live.
>
> On May 21, 10:18 pm, rigsy03<rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Yes, manners and etiquette save us from brutish behavior- we have said
>> this before. I think it still boils down to the Golden Rule for
>> intimates and healthy caution, otherwise, which does not displace
>> empathy and hope entirely.
>>
>> On May 20, 4:28 pm, archytas<nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Pol is right on government - the only question left there is who is
>>> really doing the governing. What bangs about in my head is not what
>>> we currently make of morality or into moral decisions - but rather
>>> what a modernly derived morality would be. I don't think we have much
>>> clue. Moral codes we do have are based in manners and are easily
>>> feigned. The Moses of Numbers 31 is a war criminal against today's
>>> values - but we haven't even managed to bring Pinochet to official
>>> trial. If we could develop a modern code what would it be?
>>
>>> On May 20, 9:41 pm, Allan H<allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> You have that right.. governments and religions Governments are not known
>>>> for their morality
>>>> Allan
>>>> On May 20, 2012 9:14 PM, "pol.science kid"<r.freeb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>> speaking of morality... what do you think of terrorism, and insurgency in
>>>>> countries.. how they justify their violence ... in fact the most outrageous
>>>>> justification of violence is by the governments today.... but still...
>>
>>>>> On Sun, May 20, 2012 at 1:18 PM, Allan H<allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>>> I do think the moral compass is lost, well more buried under a bunch of
>>>>>> garbage. People are more interested in their finances and how the stock
>>>>>> market is doing. Or only the projects of their church.. leaving out
>>>>>> those that do not belong aka members... and you have to remember we are
>>>>>> the old farts Neil that are guiding the nations. We all have made difficult
>>>>>> choices over the years, oddly enough some how the world is going to survive
>>>>>> the terrorism of religions and economics. some how we will make it through
>>>>>> all the mess we created.
>>>>>> Allan
>>
>>>>>> On Sun, May 20, 2012 at 2:09 AM, rigsy03<rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>> The "good old days" were still lousey for most of humanity- unless you
>>>>>>> are referring to your own youth as a golden time of life.//Our
>>>>>>> earliest morals come from our parents usually and they are "tested"
>>>>>>> against religion and society plus one's own nature- often leading to
>>>>>>> rebellion and trial and error. Errors are costly and they often repeat
>>>>>>> themselves until you learn your lesson.//There are lists of many
>>>>>>> beyond the age of 60 that have continued to create and contribute to
>>>>>>> society so that notion is relative.//We cannot control the factors of
>>>>>>> an age- wars, depressions, waste, etc. but we can influence a small
>>>>>>> circle.//Universal ignorance and superstition didn't work either.:-)
>>
>>>>>>> On May 19, 3:36 pm, archytas<nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> What I'm thinking is that we get our moral decision-making very
>>>>>>>> wrong. Every generation ends up as old farts with notions modern
>>>>>>>> youth is chronic and desiring a return to the good old days. We don't
>>>>>>>> see our pathetic failures as contributing. Moral judgement is left in
>>>>>>>> the domain of Idols. Given universal education hasn't worked, we
>>>>>>>> might try a new set of Idols that are at least modern.
>>
>>>>>>>> On May 19, 9:09 am, gabbydott<gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>>>> " The reason I think we need to review morality and come up with a
>>>>>>> modern
>>>>>>>>>> one is that I find almost no one can understand stuff like this. "
>>
>>>>>>>>> May I suggest an alternative:
>>
>>>>>>>>> I think the purpose of morality needs to be understood by every
>>>>>>> individual,
>>>>>>>>> which is why the main purpose of education is not to forget to
>>>>>>> always keep
>>>>>>>>> this door open. These are our real debts.
>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, May 19, 2012 at 2:04 AM, archytas<nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I don't mind being backward Gabby. I don't, of course, propose any
>>>>>>>>>> return to the kind of religion suffered by so many for so long and
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> often revolting treatment of women. Here is a fairly simple
>>>>>>> treatment
>>>>>>>>>> of much that's been going wrong in the financial system.
>>
>>>>>>>>>> "While most economists agree that the world is facing the worst
>>>>>>>>>> economic crisis since the
>>>>>>>>>> Great Depression, there is little agreement as to what caused it.
>>>>>>> Some
>>>>>>>>>> have argued that
>>>>>>>>>> the financial instability we are witnessing is due to irrational
>>>>>>>>>> exuberance of market
>>>>>>>>>> participants, fraud, greed, too much regulation, et cetera.
>>>>>>> However,
>>>>>>>>>> some Post Keynesian
>>>>>>>>>> economists following Hyman P. Minsky have argued that this is a
>>>>>>>>>> systemic problem, a
>>>>>>>>>> result of internal market processes that allowed fragility to build
>>>>>>>>>> over time. In this paper
>>>>>>>>>> we focus on the shift to the "shadow banking system" and the
>>>>>>> creation
>>>>>>>>>> of what Minsky
>>>>>>>>>> called the money manager phase of capitalism. In this system, rapid
>>>>>>>>>> growth of leverage
>>>>>>>>>> and financial layering allowed the financial sector to claim an
>>>>>>> ever-
>>>>>>>>>> rising proportion of
>>>>>>>>>> national income—what is sometimes called "financialization"—as the
>>>>>>>>>> financial system
>>>>>>>>>> evolved from hedge to speculative and, finally, to a Ponzi scheme.
>>>>>>>>>> The policy response to the financial crisis in the United States
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> elsewhere has
>>>>>>>>>> largely been an attempt to rescue money manager capitalism.
>>>>>>> Moreover,
>>>>>>>>>> in the case of the
>>>>>>>>>> United States. the bailout policy has contributed to further
>>>>>>>>>> concentration of the financial
>>>>>>>>>> sector, increasing dangers. We believe that the policies directed
>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>>> saving the system are
>>>>>>>>>> doomed to fail—and that alternative policies should be adopted. The
>>>>>>>>>> effective solution
>>>>>>>>>> should come in the way of downsizing the financial sector by two-
>>>>>>>>>> thirds or more, and
>>>>>>>>>> effecting fundamental modifications."
>>>>>>>>>> explain
>>>>>>>>>> The paper can be found at the Levi Institute along with loads more.
>>>>>>>>>> The rub is that banking is mostly parasitic and we need a return to
>>>>>>>>>> primitive banking that supports productive projects. The reason I
>>>>>>>>>> think we need to review morality and come up with a modern one is
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> I find almost no one can understand stuff like this. One can barely
>>>>>>>>>> get students to look up the papers and our news programmes are
>>>>>>> aimed
>>>>>>>>>> at a teenage mentality. We are both over-complicating and
>>>>>>>>>> trivialising decision making so that ordinary people can't take
>>>>>>> part
>>>>>>>>>> other than as voting dupes. The pressures on me are not to
>>>>>>> explain so
>>>>>>>>>> most people can understand, but to take part in esoteric debate to
>>>>>>>>>> earn my academic corn. Pol Kid sets out some of the dangers and
>>>>>>> Gabby
>>>>>>>>>> often has - yet if we are to retain democracy (I'm not a fan, but
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>> sure beats not being able to vote - though here in the UK I never
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>> a real vote) we have to find ways to stop it being abused by a
>>>>>>>>>> financial-political class.
>>
>>>>>>>>>> My own suspicion is that rational debate is essentially violent and
>>>>>>>>>> hence doomed to fail other than as a domination strategy (or as
>>>>>>>>>> refined chattering). There are structural answers about - such as
>>>>>>>>>> having the people make law and government administer it. There
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>> been at least half-way successful changes in, say, feminism and gay
>>>>>>>>>> rights (surely moral causes both in repression and emancipation
>>>>>>>>>> stages). I would recommend 'The Life and Times of Colonel Blimp'
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> get in the swing of things and begin to consider how 'there is no
>>>>>>>>>> alternative' mentalities screw us.
>>
>>>>>>>>>> On May 18, 7:45 pm, "pol.science kid"<r.freeb...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> no i guess Schopenhauer said.. religion is philosophy of the
>>>>>>> masses...
>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 11:48 PM, pol.science kid<
>>>>>>> r.freeb...@gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>>>>> d the generally revolting treatment of women
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Your post touches many relevant points.. but right now the
>>>>>>> point about
>>>>>>>>>>>> religion comes to my mind... its true religion has been a
>>>>>>> source of
>>>>>>>>>>>> morality for the most people...like it was schopenhauer(?) who
>>>>>>>>>>>> said religion was the morality or ethics of the masses.. dont
>>>>>>> remember
>>>>>>>>>>>> clearly ... anyways... see what i observe is.. the ethical
>>>>>>> hold of
>>>>>>>>>> religion
>>>>>>>>>>>> is fast disappearing...i rather see religion being
>>>>>>> appropriated for
>>>>>>>>>>>> political propaganda..or communal menace... plus.. i wonder
>>>>>>> how you can
>>>>>>>>>>>> remove religion form the past legacy in invoking it for
>>>>>>> morality
>>>>>>>>>> afresh...
>>>>>>>>>>>> religion does not have a glorius history.. i dont know really
>>>>>>> know..
>>>>>>>>>> havent
>>>>>>>>>>>> read religious history... i often wonder how it would be if
>>>>>>> there was a
>>
>> ...
>>
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