Re: Mind's Eye Re: deep thought

In response to James' inquiry about understanding himself as he
observes his own process - intuition first - it seems you are your own
best authority, James.

On May 14, 9:44 pm, rigs <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> You would argue with Aristotle, I presume. Hierarchy exists for a
> reason.
>
> You might be interested in an article on John le Carre (I think his
> real name is David Cornwall) which appeared recently on the BBC site.
> Sigh...at 81 he is still a dreamboat- and that's just his photo! He
> has some more to write about- the demonization of Islam.
>
> On May 14, 9:27 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > I've found reading and writing more or less impossible for about 10
> > years now - this may seem odd as I do a lot of both.  More or less
> > nothing comes without baggage I don't want and, of course, nothing
> > survives the deconstruction of science or serious history.  I know I
> > don't really want much more than a few friends and security - but even
> > this is to want a radically different society.  Words are so
> > difficult.  Religion is a very difficult example.  I'm not against
> > what Molly or Gabby or Don do with it in their different ways - but it
> > remains a control fraud in my world-view.  Old stories in academe have
> > the congregation as undergraduates, the sermon deliverers as masters
> > and PhDs and researchers as the content and truth producers.
> > Hierarchy is a religious term in origin.  I'm revolted, less by the
> > thought of this fiction, than the ease with which many swallow it.
>
> > There is a spiral dynamic at work - we used to consider such in terms
> > of RSVP cycles or an orchestra practising - you sort of (mostly) are
> > never starting at the beginning but join in the cycle.  A colleague
> > did a PhD on the children's writer Enid Blyton - fair enough - one can
> > investigate anything.  I have no problem with this in-itself.  The
> > model sadly extends to
> >  a great deal of teaching in which the fictional nature of text-made-
> > basic is elided.  I doubt you know more management and economics after
> > spending time with business school books, than you would after reading
> > a few decent novels.  A contradiction in all non-science learning
> > concerns making texts into Idols to worship.
>
> > Science only takes us so far and at heart is not very philosophical.
> > I favour gardening and cooking analogies - the 'theory' has been
> > called tropical fish realism.  I follow advice from science books much
> > as I follow gardening and cooking books - and think here, given
> > equality of kitchen materials and food - whether we'd choose to eat my
> > cooking or rigs'!  Skill factors not always in the books and
> > experiential learning are important.  I spend time reading really
> > complex stuff on the history of science - mostly German work of late
> > and I'm not at all sure I understand better without the translation.
> > My story of science starts in approximation by creatures of gravity in
> > co-evolution - but gravity remains a label.  This is some way from
> > growing plants with recommended amounts of fertiliser, nematode
> > biological warfare against slugs and strict instruction against
> > digging in my raised beds to the cats and dog.
>
> > Our cats all strayed in at some time and we have a male ginger that
> > still doesn't trust me (one wonders on the poor thing's past trauma).
>
> > On May 13, 11:46 pm, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Not quite sure of your focus James.  In terns of models, I like Spiral
> > > Dynamics.  It allows the recognition and inclusion of everyone in
> > > their own terms.
>
> > > On May 12, 11:19 pm, James <ashkas...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > You have a rapt audience Molly, I have many questions. I would be very
> > > > interested in information regarding child developmental psychology and
> > > > any individuals who have a story of their experiences and reflections
> > > > written. I understand there are many types of people out there and I
> > > > didn't think there was a word for it at all other than 'freak'. If you
> > > > have knowledge on this I can't express how valuable some would find it.
>
> > > > Do any of them feel like a 'pool of reflection'? Sensitivity to lying
> > > > and deceit? Is there any norm, parallels with autism, can they freely
> > > > dissociate (as in the complex, but the book is useless in this
> > > > instance)? Any statistical research out there, or terms I can use to
> > > > find more? Spare nothing please, I will cripple google with the fury of
> > > > my searches on your every word.
>
> > > > On 5/12/2013 9:30 AM, Allan H wrote:
>
> > > > > I agree with you Molly
>
> > > > > On Sun, May 12, 2013 at 2:53 PM, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com
> > > > > <mailto:mollyb...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> > > > >     " I seem to learn in reverse starting with an
> > > > >     intuitive bond but I'm no genius just weird"
>
> > > > >     IMHO being in-tune with the unseen (or infinite) is a particularly
> > > > >     sensitive and rare form of perception.  I am always surprised and
> > > > >     delighted to find such a person.  Listening to our instincts and
> > > > >     intuitions first, and allowing the material world to validate
> > > > >     naturally is living life inside out.
>
> > > > >     On May 11, 11:59 pm, James <ashkas...@gmail.com
> > > > >     <mailto:ashkas...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> > > > >     > Glad you said it Allan, my enthusiasm told me to leave the box
> > > > >     alone. I
> > > > >     > think the term 'unknown commodity' fits, and there are some strange
> > > > >     > varieties out there as I've known at least one, others are
> > > > >     suspect but
> > > > >     > as I can see how they would be driven nuts I won't be out there
> > > > >     > interviewing. The curiosity crosses my mind at times on the rare
> > > > >     > occasion that I catch the news of whether someone was just
> > > > >     another dumb
> > > > >     > nut or did we just lose another potential major asset to
> > > > >     civilization.
> > > > >     > Yes, if we worked to meet the needs of all without exception, I said
> > > > >     > this exact thing to someone regarding cultural integration the
> > > > >     other day
> > > > >     > in regards to our cultural isolation. An ounce of prevention.. a
> > > > >     pound
> > > > >     > of agression. It isn't even in the common vernacular I'm afraid.
>
> > > > >     > I am at a loss for meaning to your last sentence my instincts
> > > > >     throw up
> > > > >     > red flags on the subject. A few times I've been able to approach the
> > > > >     > subject by reassociating an external self to see things as a
> > > > >     story that
> > > > >     > I was free to speak the truth of and pursue compassion and say
> > > > >     'Im so
> > > > >     > sorry that...', as an older person would say to a child. It's still
> > > > >     > blank though, push some more and blank to freeze (it's good to
> > > > >     know the
> > > > >     > physiological effects of stress disorders there), push more and
> > > > >     it's  .
> > > > >     > morning shits and shakes for a few plus temporary immune system
> > > > >     > shutdown. There are a variety of mental disciplines, meditative
> > > > >     > techniques, insights into my nature, and preventive disciplines
> > > > >     that can
> > > > >     > be derived from experiences but I can't tell him 'you deserve
> > > > >     better'
> > > > >     > because it's relevance ends as a gesture. The process is
> > > > >     intuitive with
> > > > >     > others, a born talent, I seem to learn in reverse starting with an
> > > > >     > intuitive bond but I'm no genius just weird. ;-) My sense of
> > > > >     humor is
> > > > >     > improving though, not being understood is so damn BORING, it's
> > > > >     enough to
> > > > >     > make a person develop ADHD.
>
> > > > >     > On 5/11/2013 8:11 AM, Allan H wrote:
>
> > > > >     > > there is great value in systematic enlightenment,,,  I also think
> > > > >     > > though that in needs to be a attachment to those out of the
> > > > >     box and
> > > > >     > > not dismissing them..  knowledge and access to it is spread
> > > > >     through
> > > > >     > > out humanity.   the problems comes when someone starts saying I
> > > > >     > > deserve more.
>
> > > > >     > > On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 3:23 AM, James <ashkas...@gmail.com
> > > > >     <mailto:ashkas...@gmail.com>
> > > > >     > > <mailto:ashkas...@gmail.com <mailto:ashkas...@gmail.com>>> wrote:
>
> > > > >     > >     I agree that learning is self taught on the condition that
> > > > >     most of
> > > > >     > >     the means and content is circumstantial and not chosen,
> > > > >     > >     'systematique' is an abstraction and so for most I think
> > > > >     it has
> > > > >     > >     referential truth (as a resource) but not process modeling
> > > > >     truth
> > > > >     > >     until the mind has worked out components, inner systems and
> > > > >     > >     interactions.
>
> > > > >     > >     An aim for building problem solving intelligence, developing
> > > > >     > >     experience with the tools of learning and skill in adapting
> > > > >     > >     skills/knowledge to solve novel (relatively) problems
> > > > >     seems a good
> > > > >     > >     rough-draft purpose. The building blocks are important,
> > > > >     they don't
> > > > >     > >     fall into arrangement the same for everyone though and
> > > > >     that makes
> > > > >     > >     it challenging. I've had a few days where the teachers
> > > > >     instruction
> > > > >     > >     seemed a variation on 'first world problems' and many of my
> > > > >     > >     schoolmates were hardened in that way, this is a known
> > > > >     unknown,
> > > > >     > >     the challenge is an opportunity I think.
>
> > > > >     > >     Gabby I was pulling a Marvin the Martian earlier, my
> > > > >     general usage
> > > > >     > >     of enlightenment seems to be similar to Allan's, or as a
> > > > >
>
> ...
>
> read more »

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