you always explain it better than I can Molly,, thanks
On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 4:17 PM, Molly <mollyb363@gmail.com> wrote:
Not sure it is something you can try to do. Rather, when the silence
comes like the beat between the notes, sustaining it is not a matter
of will but awareness. Being fully aware in the silence of mind is
the only way I can describe it. The more you are there, the more it
comes until it is the natural state, and thoughts come and go in
between the silence. To me it seems thoughts have a mechanical
purpose, are integral to living and needed for the rational and memory
functions. But a mind constantly thinking, it seems to me, is not the
natural state. During times of high stress, that constant thinking
disturbs my peace.
On May 18, 11:08 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> for what it is worth when I try to meditate my objective goal is to become
> thoughtless ... devoid of all thought.. I only really succeeded once while
> I was out sailing off Florida leaving the keys and somewhere ah silence no
> thought until I decided to go see the shuttle.. I was off Bermuda and
> headed west.. the US Navy and Coast Guard did not like my turn.. and
> verified who I was.. it is not exactly fun having a couple of destroyers
> bearing down on you.. it was a experience coming out of it.. I know where
> I was and where I ended up between I have ho idea,, can not recall any
> thoughts at all.. was very cool..
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, May 18, 2013 at 3:40 PM, RP Singh <123...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > When I started out meditating I decided that I would stop all voluntary
> > thinking. I found that though most thinking started out involuntarily , the
> > will became attached to it and it became voluntary, that is , all thinking
> > is voluntary. So what to stop ? I decided that I would stop thinking along
> > my weaker side and found that it helped me a lot.
>
> > On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 11:33 PM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> Nietzsche at his most idiot is consumed by a marching band and thinks
> >> he finds the will to power - what an unspeakable dullard he was RP.
> >> There may be a 'reason' for hierarchy rigs (termites and social
> >> spiders do well without) - but how do we know whether its time is over
> >> or whether we have an abusive form? There's a form of tame
> >> conservatism like Nietzsche's that is little more than pandering to
> >> varieties of the divine right of kings. Hierarchic organisation is
> >> clearly in nature without human assistance but we can surely choose
> >> not to make the worst of it as we do now. In my world things reached
> >> the point when I could only drop out. Bosses have become
> >> opportunistic, libidinal, grasping scum and everyday a battle to
> >> prevent them taking more and more in the farce of a parasite financial
> >> system that has become bigger by far than any real work we do. This
> >> is the land of plenty and yet they keep all they can in penury or
> >> fealty. Even monkeys won't work for cucumber when they see the going
> >> rate for others is grapes.
>
> >> Spiral dynamics reminds me a bit of the helter-skelter on Helsby Hill
> >> - broken when I might have enjoyed it as a kid and now restored to
> >> working glory. I guess our rebuilds involve a lot of stripping down
> >> and that sense of a final, restored product that might be a bit scatty
> >> in the standard economic sense. Molly suggests its Maslow plus - I'm
> >> reminded of Ericsson's 7 stages of man. I went to a biography group
> >> for a while when about 30. I have thought since that we spend a lot
> >> of time not sharing experience to the extent we lose some basic
> >> solidarity in knowing we all find a lot tough. I'm struck that real
> >> change needs a better understanding of our biology. Leadership seems
> >> much less to do with great leader myths and much more to do with a
> >> dynamic spread across groups such that even if one culls the current
> >> crop of leaders another will replace them. What we need to do is
> >> change the institutional form. This has been obvious to me for 20
> >> years - but it's depressing knowledge, as is much in self-development
> >> where you realise you have to cut your cloth to the fashion of a less
> >> than ideal world. I don't go for paradox embrace when the cupboard is
> >> bare.
>
> >> On 16 May, 12:41, RP Singh <123...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > Man was and is within Nature , there is the outer Nature and there is
> >> the
> >> > Nature which is within you --your genes , emotions and drives which
> >> control
> >> > your thought processes. You learn only that you are capable of learning
> >> and
> >> > all your efforts arise from within you , though apparently you are
> >> > controlling your mind but actually that control comes from within and
> >> that
> >> > is the reason it is said that it is the will of God which man follows.
> >> That
> >> > which is innate is above you and your conscious efforts are determined
> >> by
> >> > the inner you , your innermost Nature.
>
> >> > On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 8:50 AM, rigs <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > > Our senses lead us to understanding the wider world; they expand our
> >> > > thoughts and understanding and can lead us to a virtuous life however
> >> > > some never get beyond. This is an ancient thought when the stars and
> >> > > heaven were sacred and man was a creature within Nature rather than
> >> > > outside of it attempting to control Nature. (Not sure the world holds
> >> > > a virtuous life in high esteem, however.)
>
> >> > > On May 15, 11:30 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > > > I think you are very right James external stimulus has always
> >> helped me
> >> > > and
> >> > > > I enjoy it very much..
>
> >> > > > On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 3:56 PM, James <ashkas...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > > > > That may be true of us all in the sense that the process of
> >> learning is
> >> > > > > undertaken within each in unique ways, the external stimulus is
> >> > > valuable in
> >> > > > > facilitating or motivating the inner. Taking part in that process
> >> as
> >> > > > > facilitator to me represents the height of learning. It hit me
> >> that I
> >> > > was
> >> > > > > wrong about something, I look to the trees for guidance at times,
> >> it is
> >> > > > > fascinating how a single breath for them is what we call one day,
> >> it
> >> > > > > reminds me that I am not a machine and need to breathe life
> >> deeply.
> >> > > > > Whatever that means. :)
>
> >> > > > > Thank you and others for the valuable and thoughtful responses,
> >> some
> >> > > > > especially who are waiting patiently while I seem to drop a bomb
> >> then
> >> > > > > disappear. I very much value the process and see it here
> >> frequently in
> >> > > > > diverse ways.
>
> >> > > > > Best foot forward as they say, and godspeed to us all. I'm rushing
> >> > > here,
> >> > > > > so much to do! :)
>
> >> > > > > On 5/15/2013 7:59 AM, Molly wrote:
>
> >> > > > >> In response to James' inquiry about understanding himself as he
> >> > > > >> observes his own process - intuition first - it seems you are
> >> your own
> >> > > > >> best authority, James.
>
> >> > > > >> On May 14, 9:44 pm, rigs <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> > > > >>> You would argue with Aristotle, I presume. Hierarchy exists for
> >> a
> >> > > > >>> reason.
>
> >> > > > >>> You might be interested in an article on John le Carre (I think
> >> his
> >> > > > >>> real name is David Cornwall) which appeared recently on the BBC
> >> site.
> >> > > > >>> Sigh...at 81 he is still a dreamboat- and that's just his
> >> photo! He
> >> > > > >>> has some more to write about- the demonization of Islam.
>
> >> > > > >>> On May 14, 9:27 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> > > > >>> I've found reading and writing more or less impossible for
> >> about 10
> >> > > > >>>> years now - this may seem odd as I do a lot of both. More or
> >> less
> >> > > > >>>> nothing comes without baggage I don't want and, of course,
> >> nothing
> >> > > > >>>> survives the deconstruction of science or serious history. I
> >> know I
> >> > > > >>>> don't really want much more than a few friends and security -
> >> but
> >> > > even
> >> > > > >>>> this is to want a radically different society. Words are so
> >> > > > >>>> difficult. Religion is a very difficult example. I'm not
> >> against
> >> > > > >>>> what Molly or Gabby or Don do with it in their different ways
> >> - but
> >> > > it
> >> > > > >>>> remains a control fraud in my world-view. Old stories in
> >> academe
> >> > > have
> >> > > > >>>> the congregation as undergraduates, the sermon deliverers as
> >> masters
> >> > > > >>>> and PhDs and researchers as the content and truth producers.
> >> > > > >>>> Hierarchy is a religious term in origin. I'm revolted, less
> >> by the
> >> > > > >>>> thought of this fiction, than the ease with which many swallow
> >> it.
> >> > > > >>>> There is a spiral dynamic at work - we used to consider such in
> >> > > terms
> >> > > > >>>> of RSVP cycles or an orchestra practising - you sort of
> >> (mostly) are
> >> > > > >>>> never starting at the beginning but join in the cycle. A
> >> colleague
> >> > > > >>>> did a PhD on the children's writer Enid Blyton - fair enough -
> >> one
> >> > > can
> >> > > > >>>> investigate anything. I have no problem with this in-itself.
> >> The
> >> > > > >>>> model sadly extends to
> >> > > > >>>> a great deal of teaching in which the fictional nature of
> >> > > text-made-
> >> > > > >>>> basic is elided. I doubt you know more management and
> >> economics
> >> > > after
> >> > > > >>>> spending time with business school books, than you would after
> >> > > reading
> >> > > > >>>> a few decent novels. A contradiction in all non-science
> >> learning
> >> > > > >>>> concerns making texts into Idols to worship.
> >> > > > >>>> Science only takes us so far and at heart is not very
> >> philosophical.
> >> > > > >>>> I favour gardening and cooking analogies - the 'theory' has
> >> been
> >> > > > >>>> called tropical fish realism. I follow advice from science
> >> books
> >> > > much
> >> > > > >>>> as I follow gardening and cooking books - and think here, given
> >> > > > >>>> equality of kitchen materials and food - whether we'd choose
> >> to eat
> >> > > my
> >> > > > >>>> cooking or rigs'! Skill factors not always in the books and
> >> > > > >>>> experiential learning are important. I spend time reading
> >> really
> >> > > > >>>> complex stuff on the history of science - mostly German work
> >> of late
> >> > > > >>>> and I'm not at all sure I understand better without the
> >> translation.
> >> > > > >>>> My story of science starts in approximation by creatures of
> >> gravity
> >> > > in
> >> > > > >>>> co-evolution - but gravity remains a label. This is some
>
> ...
>
> read more »
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|_D Allan
Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
Of course I talk to myself,
Sometimes I need expert advice..
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