Re: Mind's Eye Re: deep thought

I agree with you there, Neil, it is hard to embrace paradox when
you've been knocked down to the level of survival. this brings out
the warrior in some, defeatist in others. Yet, I've noticed along the
way, that when the end is near, and survival is no longer an option,
embrace of the paradox comes naturally.

On May 17, 2:03 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Nietzsche at his most idiot is consumed by a marching band and thinks
> he finds the will to power - what an unspeakable dullard he was RP.
>  There may be a 'reason' for hierarchy rigs (termites and social
> spiders do well without) - but how do we know whether its time is over
> or whether we have an abusive form?  There's a form of tame
> conservatism like Nietzsche's that is little more than pandering to
> varieties of the divine right of kings.  Hierarchic organisation is
> clearly in nature without human assistance but we can surely choose
> not to make the worst of it as we do now.  In my world things reached
> the point when I could only drop out.  Bosses have become
> opportunistic, libidinal, grasping scum and everyday a battle to
> prevent them taking more and more in the farce of a parasite financial
> system that has become bigger by far than any real work we do.  This
> is the land of plenty and yet they keep all they can in penury or
> fealty.  Even monkeys won't work for cucumber when they see the going
> rate for others is grapes.
>
> Spiral dynamics reminds me a bit of the helter-skelter on Helsby Hill
> - broken when I might have enjoyed it as a kid and now restored to
> working glory.  I guess our rebuilds involve a lot of stripping down
> and that sense of a final, restored product that might be a bit scatty
>  in the standard economic sense.  Molly suggests its Maslow plus - I'm
> reminded of Ericsson's 7 stages of man.  I went to a biography group
> for a while when about 30.  I have thought since that we spend a lot
> of time not sharing experience to the extent we lose some basic
> solidarity in knowing we all find a lot tough.  I'm struck that real
> change needs a better understanding of our biology.  Leadership seems
> much less to do with great leader myths and much more to do with a
> dynamic spread across groups such that even if one culls the current
> crop of leaders another will replace them. What we need to do is
> change the institutional form.  This has been obvious to me for 20
> years - but it's depressing knowledge, as is much in self-development
> where you realise you have to cut your cloth to the fashion of a less
> than ideal world.  I don't go for paradox embrace when the cupboard is
> bare.
>
> On 16 May, 12:41, RP Singh <123...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Man was and is within Nature , there is the outer Nature and there is the
> > Nature which is within you --your genes , emotions and drives which control
> > your thought processes. You learn only that you are capable of learning and
> > all your efforts arise from within you , though apparently you are
> > controlling your mind but actually that control comes from within and that
> > is the reason it is said that it is the will of God which man follows. That
> > which is innate is above you and your conscious efforts are determined by
> > the inner you , your innermost Nature.
>
> > On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 8:50 AM, rigs <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Our senses lead us to understanding the wider world; they expand our
> > > thoughts and understanding and can lead us to a virtuous life however
> > > some never get beyond. This is an ancient thought when the stars and
> > > heaven were sacred and man was a creature within Nature rather than
> > > outside of it attempting to control Nature. (Not sure the world holds
> > > a virtuous life in high esteem, however.)
>
> > > On May 15, 11:30 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > I think you are very right James external stimulus has always helped me
> > > and
> > > > I enjoy it very much..
>
> > > > On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 3:56 PM, James <ashkas...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > That may be true of us all in the sense that the process of learning is
> > > > > undertaken within each in unique ways, the external stimulus is
> > > valuable in
> > > > > facilitating or motivating the inner. Taking part in that process as
> > > > > facilitator to me represents the height of learning. It hit me that I
> > > was
> > > > > wrong about something, I look to the trees for guidance at times, it is
> > > > > fascinating how a single breath for them is what we call one day, it
> > > > > reminds me that I am not a machine and need to breathe life deeply.
> > > > > Whatever that means. :)
>
> > > > > Thank you and others for the valuable and thoughtful responses, some
> > > > > especially who are waiting patiently while I seem to drop a bomb then
> > > > > disappear. I very much value the process and see it here frequently in
> > > > > diverse ways.
>
> > > > > Best foot forward as they say, and godspeed to us all. I'm rushing
> > > here,
> > > > > so much to do! :)
>
> > > > > On 5/15/2013 7:59 AM, Molly wrote:
>
> > > > >> In response to James' inquiry about understanding himself as he
> > > > >> observes his own process - intuition first - it seems you are your own
> > > > >> best authority, James.
>
> > > > >> On May 14, 9:44 pm, rigs <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > >>> You would argue with Aristotle, I presume. Hierarchy exists for a
> > > > >>> reason.
>
> > > > >>> You might be interested in an article on John le Carre (I think his
> > > > >>> real name is David Cornwall) which appeared recently on the BBC site.
> > > > >>> Sigh...at 81 he is still a dreamboat- and that's just his photo! He
> > > > >>> has some more to write about- the demonization of Islam.
>
> > > > >>> On May 14, 9:27 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > >>>  I've found reading and writing more or less impossible for about 10
> > > > >>>> years now - this may seem odd as I do a lot of both.  More or less
> > > > >>>> nothing comes without baggage I don't want and, of course, nothing
> > > > >>>> survives the deconstruction of science or serious history.  I know I
> > > > >>>> don't really want much more than a few friends and security - but
> > > even
> > > > >>>> this is to want a radically different society.  Words are so
> > > > >>>> difficult.  Religion is a very difficult example.  I'm not against
> > > > >>>> what Molly or Gabby or Don do with it in their different ways - but
> > > it
> > > > >>>> remains a control fraud in my world-view.  Old stories in academe
> > > have
> > > > >>>> the congregation as undergraduates, the sermon deliverers as masters
> > > > >>>> and PhDs and researchers as the content and truth producers.
> > > > >>>> Hierarchy is a religious term in origin.  I'm revolted, less by the
> > > > >>>> thought of this fiction, than the ease with which many swallow it.
> > > > >>>> There is a spiral dynamic at work - we used to consider such in
> > > terms
> > > > >>>> of RSVP cycles or an orchestra practising - you sort of (mostly) are
> > > > >>>> never starting at the beginning but join in the cycle.  A colleague
> > > > >>>> did a PhD on the children's writer Enid Blyton - fair enough - one
> > > can
> > > > >>>> investigate anything.  I have no problem with this in-itself.  The
> > > > >>>> model sadly extends to
> > > > >>>>   a great deal of teaching in which the fictional nature of
> > > text-made-
> > > > >>>> basic is elided.  I doubt you know more management and economics
> > > after
> > > > >>>> spending time with business school books, than you would after
> > > reading
> > > > >>>> a few decent novels.  A contradiction in all non-science learning
> > > > >>>> concerns making texts into Idols to worship.
> > > > >>>> Science only takes us so far and at heart is not very philosophical.
> > > > >>>> I favour gardening and cooking analogies - the 'theory' has been
> > > > >>>> called tropical fish realism.  I follow advice from science books
> > > much
> > > > >>>> as I follow gardening and cooking books - and think here, given
> > > > >>>> equality of kitchen materials and food - whether we'd choose to eat
> > > my
> > > > >>>> cooking or rigs'!  Skill factors not always in the books and
> > > > >>>> experiential learning are important.  I spend time reading really
> > > > >>>> complex stuff on the history of science - mostly German work of late
> > > > >>>> and I'm not at all sure I understand better without the translation.
> > > > >>>> My story of science starts in approximation by creatures of gravity
> > > in
> > > > >>>> co-evolution - but gravity remains a label.  This is some way from
> > > > >>>> growing plants with recommended amounts of fertiliser, nematode
> > > > >>>> biological warfare against slugs and strict instruction against
> > > > >>>> digging in my raised beds to the cats and dog.
> > > > >>>> Our cats all strayed in at some time and we have a male ginger that
> > > > >>>> still doesn't trust me (one wonders on the poor thing's past
> > > trauma).
> > > > >>>> On May 13, 11:46 pm, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > >>>>> Not quite sure of your focus James.  In terns of models, I like
> > > Spiral
> > > > >>>>> Dynamics.  It allows the recognition and inclusion of everyone in
> > > > >>>>> their own terms.
> > > > >>>>> On May 12, 11:19 pm, James <ashkas...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > >>>>>> You have a rapt audience Molly, I have many questions. I would be
> > > very
> > > > >>>>>> interested in information regarding child developmental
> > > psychology and
> > > > >>>>>> any individuals who have a story of their experiences and
> > > reflections
> > > > >>>>>> written. I understand there are many types of people out there
> > > and I
> > > > >>>>>> didn't think there was a word for it at all other than 'freak'.
> > > If you
> > > > >>>>>> have knowledge on this I can't express how valuable some would
> > > find
> > > > >>>>>> it.
> > > > >>>>>> Do any of them feel like a 'pool of reflection'? Sensitivity to
> > > lying
> > > > >>>>>> and deceit? Is there any norm, parallels with autism, can they
> > > freely
> > > > >>>>>> dissociate (as in the complex, but the book is useless in this
> > > > >>>>>> instance)? Any statistical research out there, or terms I can use
> > > to
> > > > >>>>>> find more? Spare nothing please, I will cripple google with the
> > > fury
> > > > >>>>>> of
> > > > >>>>>> my searches on
>
> ...
>
> read more »

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