Re: Mind's Eye trust

You are not a very good example of a democratic society when you talk
like that Allan. No wonder it doesn't work. Found a fake bill with
anti-FDR slogans when my father was in Hollywood so the rift goes on
and on, I guess. Actually, the types in Dante's Inferno are with us
still- am down to the Florentine bankers.

On May 25, 1:51 pm, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> what Gabby sent was right..  what is the thing with the prisoner of war
> camp the US insist on keeping   or at  least the republicans insist on..
>  actually It would be fun to set up a house of horrors especially built
>  for them..  bet in three days or less I could get them willing  to resign
> form politics and give me all their personal money and family fortunes..
>  The problem is I am not allowed to do harm  so sad sometimes
>
>
>
> On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 8:18 PM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Lovely Gabby.
>
> > I can't other than agree Molly.  I've held (as long as Allan has his
> > soul-god thingy) that there is far less individual about the human
> > that we think - Gabby mentions a bit of the German for gossip in
> > another thread and I doubt much human communication is much more than
> > this and we struggle to realise how connected with hierarchy it is.
> > We find ourselves working with "individuals" when we need to work with
> > the network.  Continuing the Freudian theme, the best individuals come
> > from the best societies and the best societies are made by the best
> > individuals.  Gabby's ain't it so not fits that too.  We now split the
> > electron into holon, spinon and orbiton but still struggle to see
> > multiple aspects of such as trust.
>
> > On May 25, 9:12 am, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Yeah, it ain't.
> > > communi Am 25.05.2013 07:20 schrieb "Allan H" <allanh1...@gmail.com>:
>
> > > > ain't that the truth
>
> > > > On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 11:38 PM, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > >> Trust is all too often manipulated onto people who don't understand,
> > > >> and there are far too many.  then there are people who understand, but
> > > >> allow, because they feel they are powerless do do otherwise.  all of
> > > >> it gives us a picture of ourselves that we either recognize or look
> > > >> away from.
>
> > > >> On May 24, 4:35 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> > I don't really want to imagine a Hollywood version of Gitmo Gabby.
> >  By
> > > >> > the end we'd believe a truth machine turned all the evil terrorists
> > > >> > orange.  We've just had a terrorist moment in the UK - the killing
> > of
> > > >> > a soldier in Woolwich (Drummer Rigby).  The idiots who did it were
> > > >> > well known activists.  There's a trust issue in even this sort of
> > > >> > stuff.  When you can't trust politics what are you supposed to do?
> > > >> > The Germans should have saved us a lot of bother by protesting the
> > > >> > Nazis - a few did.  Democracy is supposed to give voice to minority
> > > >> > opinion but rarely does.
>
> > > >> > Even on stuff like climate change we have big problems.The so-called
> > > >> > "deficit model" suggests that the public lacks certain knowledge
> > that
> > > >> > if it were known properly (so closing the deficit) would lead them
> > to
> > > >> > favor certain policy actions. In other words, if only you understood
> > > >> > the "facts" as I understand them, then you would come to share my
> > > >> > policy preferences.
>
> > > >> > The deficit model helps to explain why people argue so passionately
> > > >> > about "facts" in public debates over policies with scientific
> > > >> > components. If you believe that acceptance of certain scientific
> > views
> > > >> > is a precondition for, or a causal factor in determining what policy
> > > >> > views people hold, then arguments over facts serve as political
> > debate
> > > >> > by proxy.
>
> > > >> > Dan Kahan, professor of psychology at Yale Law School, has conducted
> > > >> > several studies of public views on climate change and finds that the
> > > >> > causal mechanisms of the "deficit model" actually work in reverse:
> > > >> > people typically "form risk perceptions that are congenial to their
> > > >> > values." Our political views shape how we interpret facts. On an
> > issue
> > > >> > as complex as climate, there are enough data and interpretations to
> > > >> > offer support to almost any political agenda. Thus we have arguments
> > > >> > over the degree or lack of consensus among scientists, and see
> > efforts
> > > >> > to delegitimise outlier positions in order to assert one true and
> > > >> > proper interpretation. Added to the mix is the temptation to push
> > > >> > "facts" beyond what science can support, which offers each side the
> > > >> > opportunity for legitimate critique of the excesses of their
> > > >> > opponents. These dynamics can (and do) go on forever.
>
> > > >> > We obviously do much the same on such matters as imperialism and
> > > >> > terrorism.  The killing in London was a breach of trust - but I can
> > > >> > show the same breach in which investments made by a US university
> > lead
> > > >> > to dead black bodies in the Congo.  I was conned a a young man into
> > > >> > believing I could work virtuously for my country as a soldier - this
> > > >> > turned out not to be true.  I deeply regret some of what I did,
> > though
> > > >> > things might have been worse if it had been someone else than me.
> >  The
> > > >> > techniques used to bind you to comrades in arms are, of course,
> > > >> > propaganda.
>
> > > >> > A big problem with trust is it is so easy to manipulate.  I don't
> > > >> > trust most people to enter argument on the basis their mind might
> > > >> > change.
>
> > > >> > On 24 May, 15:48, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > >> > > You may be right rigs.  that hero's quest moves us along in ways
> > that
> > > >> > > include our infinite aspects.  I also like Andrew's insight into
> > the
> > > >> > > relationship between trust and forgiveness.  You may be on to
> > > >> > > something there, Andrew.
>
> > > >> > > On May 24, 8:33 am, rigs <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > >> > > > Some may have been trained not to trust from the start and live
> > out
> > > >> > > > the prophecies imposed as if in a dream. Hopefully love and
> > > >> education
> > > >> > > > can change the script and intercede when old grooves of thought/
> > > >> > > > response pop up. But a good deal of life/decisions look pretty
> > > >> > > > irrational in retrospect- at least for me. Perhaps the struggle/
> > > >> > > > correction is what Campbell would call a hero/heroine's quest.
>
> > > >> > > > On May 24, 6:45 am, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > >> > > > > I suppose there is a difference between trust and bad decision
> > > >> making,
> > > >> > > > > but you are right, the difference appears to be subtle in some
> > > >> cases.
> > > >> > > > > When our experience is deconstructing, can we  trust that
> > > >> everything
> > > >> > > > > will be alright without falling into the dark emotions
> > attached to
> > > >> > > > > memories of things gone wrong?  It might be in our nature to
> > do
> > > >> so, or
> > > >> > > > > we might be trained at an early age to do so, and a leap of
> > faith
> > > >> may
> > > >> > > > > be necessary for reprogramming our first responses.
> > > >>  Deconstruction is
> > > >> > > > > part of life.  So is chaos.  Yet I see many crying the sky is
> > > >> falling
> > > >> > > > > at the first sign.  Seems to me a lack of trust - maybe self
> > > >> trust.
>
> > > >> > > > > On May 23, 6:20 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > >> > > > > > I met him.  He was a good pianist and great company.  Much
> > of
> > > >> what he
> > > >> > > > > > did was actually common sense.  I might, for instance,
> > suggest
> > > >> I am so
> > > >> > > > > > in love with rigs that I am sharpening my sword at this very
> > > >> moment to
> > > >> > > > > > enter the circles of Hell to save her soul.  My cunning plan
> > > >> might, in
> > > >> > > > > > fact, be to send Allan with his pellet gun!  Laing found
> > that
> > > >> much
> > > >> > > > > > professed as love was in fact part of a control strategy.  I
> > > >> am, in
> > > >> > > > > > fact, far too fond of rigs to want to stop her dancing with
> > > >> Dante.  My
> > > >> > > > > > grandson enjoyed the video game without noticing the love
> > > >> story.  He
> > > >> > > > > > is good at the killing for such a sensitive boy.  Max loves
> > him
> > > >> dearly
> > > >> > > > > > (strategy - turn boy to extra walk butler?)
>
> > > >> > > > > > One of the dark features of trust can be seen in such as
> > child
> > > >> sexual
> > > >> > > > > > grooming or the Stockholm effect.  Molly's not comparing
> > > >> herself to
> > > >> > > > > > others and just loving when she can seems right to me -
> > though
> > > >> a good
> > > >> > > > > > time girl might just say the same words with another
> > meaning!
> > > >>  One of
> > > >> > > > > > the theories on autism is 'intense world theory' - rather
> > than
> > > >> being
> > > >> > > > > > insensitive to social perception they get such far more
> > > >> intensely than
> > > >> > > > > > most of us (thus they are overwhelmed and have to compensate
> > > >> > > > > > internally).  I suspect there are a number of categories
> > > >> amongst us in
> > > >> > > > > > terms of 'trust decisions'.  Tolerance of ambiguity - as in
> > the
> > > >> Neil
> > > >> > > > > > is looking at Gabby who is looking at Allan example - to get
> > > >> through
> > > >> > > > > > to the factual-logical is quite rare.
>
> > > >> > > > > > Very few people talk much about how they come to trust.  I
> > > >> don't think
> > > >> > > > > > I would ever have signed up for a loan with an interest rate
> > > >> swap
> > > >> > > > > > contract - but many did.  How did they get conned - given I
> > > >> could
> > > >> > > > > > explain the dangers in a couple of minutes?  I suspect their
> > > >> trust was
> > > >> > > > > > swooned,partly because they were conned by lying script
> > > >> selling, but
> > > >> > > > > > also because their is little rational in most human decision
> > > >> making.
>
> > > >> > > > > > On 23 May, 07:42, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > >> > > > > > > The infinite is very difficult to come to grips with.. it
> > can
> > > >> not be done
>
> ...
>
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>
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