change is one of the most difficult things to occur ,, that is if it is for positive value.. there is a great deal of resistance by those who do not want to change ,, they would rather hide their head in the sand sayinng there is nothing I can do..
On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 10:35 PM, archytas <nwterry@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't really want to imagine a Hollywood version of Gitmo Gabby. By
the end we'd believe a truth machine turned all the evil terrorists
orange. We've just had a terrorist moment in the UK - the killing of
a soldier in Woolwich (Drummer Rigby). The idiots who did it were
well known activists. There's a trust issue in even this sort of
stuff. When you can't trust politics what are you supposed to do?
The Germans should have saved us a lot of bother by protesting the
Nazis - a few did. Democracy is supposed to give voice to minority
opinion but rarely does.
Even on stuff like climate change we have big problems.The so-called
"deficit model" suggests that the public lacks certain knowledge that
if it were known properly (so closing the deficit) would lead them to
favor certain policy actions. In other words, if only you understood
the "facts" as I understand them, then you would come to share my
policy preferences.
The deficit model helps to explain why people argue so passionately
about "facts" in public debates over policies with scientific
components. If you believe that acceptance of certain scientific views
is a precondition for, or a causal factor in determining what policy
views people hold, then arguments over facts serve as political debate
by proxy.
Dan Kahan, professor of psychology at Yale Law School, has conducted
several studies of public views on climate change and finds that the
causal mechanisms of the "deficit model" actually work in reverse:
people typically "form risk perceptions that are congenial to their
values." Our political views shape how we interpret facts. On an issue
as complex as climate, there are enough data and interpretations to
offer support to almost any political agenda. Thus we have arguments
over the degree or lack of consensus among scientists, and see efforts
to delegitimise outlier positions in order to assert one true and
proper interpretation. Added to the mix is the temptation to push
"facts" beyond what science can support, which offers each side the
opportunity for legitimate critique of the excesses of their
opponents. These dynamics can (and do) go on forever.
We obviously do much the same on such matters as imperialism and
terrorism. The killing in London was a breach of trust - but I can
show the same breach in which investments made by a US university lead
to dead black bodies in the Congo. I was conned a a young man into
believing I could work virtuously for my country as a soldier - this
turned out not to be true. I deeply regret some of what I did, though
things might have been worse if it had been someone else than me. The
techniques used to bind you to comrades in arms are, of course,
propaganda.
A big problem with trust is it is so easy to manipulate. I don't
trust most people to enter argument on the basis their mind might
change.
On 24 May, 15:48, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> You may be right rigs. that hero's quest moves us along in ways that
> include our infinite aspects. I also like Andrew's insight into the
> relationship between trust and forgiveness. You may be on to
> something there, Andrew.
>
> On May 24, 8:33 am, rigs <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Some may have been trained not to trust from the start and live out
> > the prophecies imposed as if in a dream. Hopefully love and education
> > can change the script and intercede when old grooves of thought/
> > response pop up. But a good deal of life/decisions look pretty
> > irrational in retrospect- at least for me. Perhaps the struggle/
> > correction is what Campbell would call a hero/heroine's quest.
>
> > On May 24, 6:45 am, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > I suppose there is a difference between trust and bad decision making,
> > > but you are right, the difference appears to be subtle in some cases.
> > > When our experience is deconstructing, can we trust that everything
> > > will be alright without falling into the dark emotions attached to
> > > memories of things gone wrong? It might be in our nature to do so, or
> > > we might be trained at an early age to do so, and a leap of faith may
> > > be necessary for reprogramming our first responses. Deconstruction is
> > > part of life. So is chaos. Yet I see many crying the sky is falling
> > > at the first sign. Seems to me a lack of trust - maybe self trust.
>
> > > On May 23, 6:20 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > I met him. He was a good pianist and great company. Much of what he
> > > > did was actually common sense. I might, for instance, suggest I am so
> > > > in love with rigs that I am sharpening my sword at this very moment to
> > > > enter the circles of Hell to save her soul. My cunning plan might, in
> > > > fact, be to send Allan with his pellet gun! Laing found that much
> > > > professed as love was in fact part of a control strategy. I am, in
> > > > fact, far too fond of rigs to want to stop her dancing with Dante. My
> > > > grandson enjoyed the video game without noticing the love story. He
> > > > is good at the killing for such a sensitive boy. Max loves him dearly
> > > > (strategy - turn boy to extra walk butler?)
>
> > > > One of the dark features of trust can be seen in such as child sexual
> > > > grooming or the Stockholm effect. Molly's not comparing herself to
> > > > others and just loving when she can seems right to me - though a good
> > > > time girl might just say the same words with another meaning! One of
> > > > the theories on autism is 'intense world theory' - rather than being
> > > > insensitive to social perception they get such far more intensely than
> > > > most of us (thus they are overwhelmed and have to compensate
> > > > internally). I suspect there are a number of categories amongst us in
> > > > terms of 'trust decisions'. Tolerance of ambiguity - as in the Neil
> > > > is looking at Gabby who is looking at Allan example - to get through
> > > > to the factual-logical is quite rare.
>
> > > > Very few people talk much about how they come to trust. I don't think
> > > > I would ever have signed up for a loan with an interest rate swap
> > > > contract - but many did. How did they get conned - given I could
> > > > explain the dangers in a couple of minutes? I suspect their trust was
> > > > swooned,partly because they were conned by lying script selling, but
> > > > also because their is little rational in most human decision making.
>
> > > > On 23 May, 07:42, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > The infinite is very difficult to come to grips with.. it can not be done
> > > > > if it is not examined with effort put in to understanding it,, now I do
> > > > > not even begin to understand ego I know it is in relationship to "I" but
> > > > > it always seem to lead me back the the acronym EGO = Easing God Out
> > > > > Yes never read Laing but reading about him as he was existentialist he can
> > > > > not be all bad..
>
> > > > > On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 12:09 AM, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > For me, it is difficult to put reasonable terms to the infinite.
> > > > > > Although I do think that the soul is a part of us and holds our
> > > > > > individual aspect of the infinite, like the ego holds our finite
> > > > > > aspect- I can't say how it has effected my life, other than I know I
> > > > > > feel it always and listen more closely when "hearing" it. Let those
> > > > > > with ears hear.
>
> > > > > > I have stopped trying to compare myself to others, and just love when
> > > > > > I can. I find more peace there.
>
> > > > > > On May 22, 2:48 pm, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > I was reading what you were saying,, I can not help but wonder if this
> > > > > > > ability to see into and react does not come from an earlier time of the
> > > > > > > soul.. the more I watch different things saying a persons personality is
> > > > > > > really the personality of the soul with almost what would appear to be
> > > > > > > a indication of soul development. The ability to work through and evolve.
> > > > > > > Think over what has been said recently I am think people only slightly
> > > > > > > modify their behavior and it seem to start from birth. (looking at my
> > > > > > own
> > > > > > > brothers and sister none of them have ever changed their personality
> > > > > > since
> > > > > > > we were kids,, me I was always the odd man out with a strange interest in
> > > > > > > spirituality , why no idea) but I have actually changed radically and
> > > > > > still
> > > > > > > retained the original..
>
> > > > > > > On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 6:11 PM, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > Not sure what you mean by "This" rigs. I am hoping that RP was
> > > > > > > > kidding, not sure how to respond otherwise.
>
> > > > > > > > If you are referring to the Covey model, not sure how behaving in ways
> > > > > > > > that engender trust, like not engaging in gossip, or in ways that
> > > > > > > > break trust, like gossiping, is in any way passive agressive.
> > > > > > > > Measuring trust in doses would seem to me to be exhausting, as I
> > > > > > > > encounter too many people in a day. I find myself extending trust en
> > > > > > > > route, and then making a mental note later about adjusting my own
> > > > > > > > behavior to suit the situation. If I know that someone I am meeting
> > > > > > > > likes to gossip, I will take care in my responses or limit the meeting
> > > > > > > > time. Which to me just makes sense, but to someone who likes to
> > > > > > > > gossip might seem passive agressive I suppose. Which is why I say, in
> > > > > > > > the end, we ourselves determine our own behavior and ultimately our
> > > > > > > > own internal climate with thoughts and feelings.
>
> > > > > > > > On May 21, 10:37 pm, rigs <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > This sounds like passive-agressive. Is it? What in society fosters
> > > > > > > > > this disorder? I thought of James being so able to identify some
> > > > > > > > > obvious types but what about the interior-unspoken-unexpressed that
> > > > > > > > > remains hidden? Is trust a lofty concept to maintain order and
> > > > > > > > > control? How does one trust trust and who defines it? Etiquette and
> > > > > > > > > courtesy tame the savage beast, as Archytas once mentioned, so does
> > > > > > > > > that make them a ruse? What about the rug-pullers and apple-cart-
> > > > > > > > > upsetters who have often been courageous and heroes?
>
> > > > > > > > > On May 21, 12:33 pm, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > Surely, you jest.
>
> > > > > > > > > > Steven Covey (jr) wrote the current business book on trust that
> > > > > > > > > > includes the following summary:
>
> > > > > > > > > > High Trust
> > > > > > > > > > Behaviors
> > > > > > > > > > Low Trust Behaviors
>
> > > > > > > > > > Straight talk
> > > > > > > > > > Honesty, integrity, affirmation, good facts, willingness to correct
> > > > > > > > > > Spinning, cover up, lie, skirt issue, yes to everyone, double talk,
> > > > > > > > > > flatter
>
> > > > > > > > > > Demonstrate respect
> > > > > > > > > > Non-judgmental, appreciate, recognize, include, courtesy,
>
> > > > > > > > > > No respect, discounting, belittling, ignoring, end run, judge,
> > > > > > > > > > rudeness, contempt, exclude, show respect only to those who can do
> > > > > > > > > > something for you
> > > > > > > > > > Create transparency
> > > > > > > > > > Clear, truthful, open, integrity, authenticity, discrete
> > > > > > > > > > Hide/cover up, withhold
> > > > > > information,
> > > > > > > > keep secrets,
> > > > > > > > > > create illusions, pretend
>
> > > > > > > > > > Right wrongs
> > > > > > > > > > Humility, integrity, restitution, caring
> > > > > > > > > > intent Avoid clarity,
> > > > > > don't
> > > > > > > > admit
> > > > > > > > > > or repair mistakes, cover up mistakes
>
> > > > > > > > > > Show loyalty
> > > > > > > > > > Be loyal to those not present, credit where credit is due,
> > > > > > > > > > speak of everyone respectfully, keep confidences
> > > > > > > > > > Backbiting/gossip, sell others out, take credit yourself,
> > > > > > sweet-talk
> > > > > > > > > > people to their faces and bad-mouth behind their back
>
> > > > > > > > > > Deliver results
> > > > > > > > > > Results on-time/within budget, get the right things done,
> > > > > > > > > > make things happen, accomplish what you were hired to
> > > > > > > > > > do Overpromise/under-deliver,
> > > > > > fail to
> > > > > > > > deliver,
> > > > > > > > > > deliver on activities not results
>
> > > > > > > > > > Get better
> > > > > > > > > > Continuously improve, increase capability, act of
>
> ...
>
> read more »
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|_D Allan
Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
Of course I talk to myself,
Sometimes I need expert advice..
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