Re: Mind's Eye Re: deep thought

Watching the cat sounds lovely. I am watching buds spring to leaf. The
oak will soon have leaves the size of a plate but now they are still
lacy- dangling the branches.//BUT- I need a new roof on the garage-
after 45 years! Roofer comes tomorrow. Lord, spare the roof beams.
Amen.

On May 14, 6:40 pm, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> There are many tedious third and fourth hand interpretations of the
> Graves material.  Some may find this second hand piece tedious because
> it is not organized into sections etc., but Don Beck and his partner,
> Cohen, wrote the textbook on the model.  I guess it is the Maslow
> model with added dimension, but it does allow each his own,
> recognizing that we all move up and down the spiral of integrated
> development at any given time in our lives.  Understanding brings
> compassion.  Lack of understanding - Babel.  We can analyze it all day
> long but are we really living if that is how we spend our time?
> Watching the cat, these days (if I had one) sounds to me more in touch
> with the clarity and joy that life has to offer.
>
> On May 14, 4:10 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I go along with that Allan - for what its worth I think we are
> > investigating our past.
> > Anyone who wants a taste of spiral dynamics (I'm not a fan) could take
> > a look here -  http://www.edumar.cl/documentos/SD_version_for_constellation5.pdf
> > - the download takes a while because its somekind of power point
> > lecture.  That plus Wikki are free.
>
> > There have been various attempts to explain simply why we are clinging
> > to this rock - often called 'a guide for the perplexed'.  Montaigne is
> > an old one - but I read EF Schumacher only to discover it was all
> > cobblers on page one!
> > There is a book by Barbara Kellermann - 'The End of Leadership' - and
> > I think that's quite good at demonstrating how we end up dominated by
> > false history.  My elder brother and sister were my first heroes - and
> > as a consequence of a brilliant story of my brother's (Wacky races 20
> > years before) in which he mentioned carbon dioxide as a white gas I
> > ticked that box on a chemistry multiple choice and only got 99%.
>
> > On 14 May, 17:00, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > I actually do understand Neil,,  it is only recently it has been falling
> > > totally in place.  It is an answer I was not expecting.. Tim said it
> > > correctly :  we are immortal beings in a state of earthism.
>
> > > On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 5:40 PM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > We are never the finished article I guess James.  I don't go directly
> > > > for RP's past lives - but imagine we were both once on opposite sides
> > > > of the Anglo (and others) - Spanish War (1458 and all that) as able
> > > > seamen.  Our chances of survival would have been mutually low.  The
> > > > lousy conditions (literally) for crew were actually the real enemy.
> > > > Our heroism would likely have led us both to death from disease.  The
> > > > Spaniards at least paid their survivors off.  Many of the English died
> > > > of starvation because they were not paid.  Our chances of getting
> > > > together, saying '**** this for a game of soldiers', and forming a
> > > > sensible society without war were very limited.  General recall of
> > > > such 'past lives' print the heroic legend rather than reveal the real
> > > > history.
>
> > > > There are often no riddles, just chronic and obvious deception.  My
> > > > dad (who was in WW2) warned me about marching bands, but did little to
> > > > disabuse me on patriotism.  The indication was always I'd know when I
> > > > grew up, but in his own way he filled my head with twaddle, making me
> > > > feel I was a disappointment.  I think the riddles occur for many
> > > > reasons, not least that we find dealing with the powerful a matter of
> > > > supplication - a matter of deep biology.  There may be some inner
> > > > light - but I don't experience any other than as distraction from the
> > > > world that will be there next time I walk into it.  The ginger cat has
> > > > no 'reason' to be scared of me - but I do wonder if such trauma casts
> > > > a shadow through our generations.
>
> > > > An old friend once told me she wished she had been 'born good' and I
> > > > suspect the morality available to us is very confusing.  A current
> > > > interest of  mine - why clever people are so stupid - is based in my
> > > > dissatisfaction with moral theories.  The topic starts with a simple
> > > > question doing the rounds.  We could put it this way.
>
> > > > James is married and looking at Gabby, but Gabby is looking at Neil
> > > > who isn't married'.  From this information, which of the following
> > > > options is correct in terms of whether a married person is looking at
> > > > an unmarried one:
> > > > 1. Yes
> > > > 2. No
> > > > 3.Not enough information to decide.
>
> > > > Most people conclude there is not enough information to decide.  The
> > > > 'reason' is we don't know whether Gabby is married or not.  The idea
> > > > of the question is to get at our general intolerance of ambiguity.
> > > > Scores out of ten on questions like this are typically 0 -2.
>
> > > > To cut the game short here the real answer is 'yes'.  In a teaching
> > > > situation one leaves a class to ponder.  Quite a few suggest stuff
> > > > like scouring the group logs to see if Gabby has ever told us whether
> > > > she is married or not, but in fact we don't need to know.  The answer
> > > > is this:
> > > > If Gabby isn't married then married James is looking a an unmarried
> > > > person.
> > > > If Gabby is married a married person is looking at unmarried Neil.
> > > > So whether Gabby is married or not, someone married is looking at an
> > > > unmarried person.  Simples, but 9 out of 10 get stuff like this wrong
> > > > unless they have been given the answer.
>
> > > > The research continues in many directions - neuroscience being the
> > > > main one, the establishment of RQ another and the behaviour of
> > > > intelligent people gambling in banking another.  In the UK we have
> > > > discovered that Hillsborough (a soccer tragedy involving many deaths
> > > > 23 years back) led to a massive cover-up  by all the relevant
> > > > authorities - nearly all officials lied or were forced to lie - 160
> > > > police statements were changed, the victims were vilified as 'drunk'
> > > > and so on.  I guess most members f this group would hope to have acted
> > > > morally and told the truth in such a situation - but statistical
> > > > evidence is against us.  I find myself less concerned with the 3000
> > > > year failure of virtue ethics and peering into the subjective - and
> > > > more with how  honesty is not much a policy at all.
>
> > > > Much subjectivity involves ambiguity and as we get to k now much more
> > > > about brain states deception may become more difficult whether one
> > > > introspects or speaks amongst others.  If James and I had met some
> > > > years after the Armada would this have been as enemies or people who
> > > > knew they had both been duped by a greater enemy who threw their arms
> > > > around each other?  Circles in the spirals of the windmills
> > > > notwithstanding,  much could be made simple without being rendered
> > > > facile.
>
> > > > On May 14, 3:27 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > I've found reading and writing more or less impossible for about 10
> > > > > years now - this may seem odd as I do a lot of both.  More or less
> > > > > nothing comes without baggage I don't want and, of course, nothing
> > > > > survives the deconstruction of science or serious history.  I know I
> > > > > don't really want much more than a few friends and security - but e
> > > > > this is to want a radically different society.  Words are so
> > > > > difficult.  Religion is a very difficult example.  I'm not against
> > > > > what Molly or Gabby or Don do with it in their different ways - but it
> > > > > remains a control fraud in my world-view.  Old stories in academe have
> > > > > the congregation as undergraduates, the sermon deliverers as masters
> > > > > and PhDs and researchers as the content and truth producers.
> > > > > Hierarchy is a religious term in origin.  I'm revolted, less by the
> > > > > thought of this fiction, than the ease with which many swallow it.
>
> > > > > There is a spiral dynamic at work - we used to consider such in terms
> > > > > of RSVP cycles or an orchestra practising - you sort of (mostly) are
> > > > > never starting at the beginning but join in the cycle.  A colleague
> > > > > did a PhD on the children's writer Enid Blyton - fair enough - one can
> > > > > investigate anything.  I have no problem with this in-itself.  The
> > > > > model sadly extends to
> > > > >  a great deal of teaching in which the fictional nature of text-made-
> > > > > basic is elided.  I doubt you know more management and economics after
> > > > > spending time with business school books, than you would after reading
> > > > > a few decent novels.  A contradiction in all non-science learning
> > > > > concerns making texts into Idols to worship.
>
> > > > > Science only takes us so far and at heart is not very philosophical.
> > > > > I favour gardening and cooking analogies - the 'theory' has been
> > > > > called tropical fish realism.  I follow advice from science books much
> > > > > as I follow gardening and cooking books - and think here, given
> > > > > equality of kitchen materials and food - whether we'd choose to eat my
> > > > > cooking or rigs'!  Skill factors not always in the books and
> > > > > experiential learning are important.  I spend time reading really
> > > > > complex stuff on the history of science - mostly German work of late
> > > > > and I'm not at all sure I understand better without the translation.
> > > > > My story of science starts in approximation by creatures of gravity in
> > > > > co-evolution - but gravity remains a label.  This is some way from
> > > > > growing plants with recommended amounts of fertiliser, nematode
> > > > > biological warfare against slugs and strict instruction against
> > > > > digging in my raised beds to the cats and dog.
>
> > > > > Our cats all strayed in at some time and we have a male ginger that
> > > > > still doesn't
>
> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.