The good dream side of this is what you say Lee. But the thought
experiment is a challenge to current ideology. I've noticed over the
years that the most passionate defenders of the protestant work ethic
don't do jobs involving hard work for low pay.
On Oct 26, 2:19 pm, Lee Douglas <leerevdoug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ahhhh robot heaven is my ideal.
>
> It gets rid of money as nobody would need to barter goods or services
> to survive, it would mean that humans can spend more time growing and
> learning, and can you imagine the various works of art, in all media?
>
> Now of course the thing to consider is the transitional period, and I guess
> this is Archy's main thrust. Our history shows us that
> such transitional periods are fraught with violence and upheaval, I suspect
> a move to robotic heaven would be little different.
>
> So we have robots a plenty and much work going on in robotics. I suspect
> the next thing we'll have to sort is robots that make and repair robots.
>
> Should we concentrate then on food and water production and distribution?
> Why yes I think we should.
>
> Get that done and then nobody has to pay for food or water, ahhh now we are
> getting somewhere. A world full of thinkers and artists!
>
> Energy next?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, 19 September 2012 22:56:36 UTC+1, archytas wrote:
>
> > Thought experiments are devices of the imagination used to investigate
> > the nature of things. Thought experimenting often takes place when the
> > method of variation is employed in entertaining imaginative
> > suppositions. They are used for diverse reasons in a variety of areas,
> > including economics, history, mathematics, philosophy, and physics.
> > Most often thought experiments are communicated in narrative form,
> > sometimes through media like a diagram. Thought experiments should be
> > distinguished from thinking about experiments, from merely imagining
> > any experiments to be conducted outside the imagination, and from
> > psychological experiments with thoughts. They should also be
> > distinguished from counterfactual reasoning in general, as they seem
> > to require an experimental element.
> >http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/thought-experiment/
>
> > One I like is the notion of robot heaven. It's easy enough to imagine
> > a time when machines grow our food, build our shelter and do our
> > work. The interesting stuff comes in thinking what this would mean
> > for wealth distribution and the nature of society. What work would be
> > left to do? One can also wonder what place any of our work ethics
> > would have in such a society. There may be some deconstructive effect
> > on just what current work ideologies are in place for.
>
> > One of the great improvements technology brought to my life is more or
> > less never having to go into a bank. The only real innovations in
> > banking are the ATM and electronic banking. This kind of technology
> > and similar in agriculture and industry fundamentally reduce the
> > amount of human effort to grow and make what we need. We are in
> > partial state of robot heaven.
>
> > Our ideologies are not up to speed. Real unemployment is massive and
> > education does little to provide job skills. We are sold life-styles
> > and products by insane advertising. Job creation seems to be in
> > perverse areas like financial services or bringing back attended gas-
> > pumps. With more efficient production we should be able to afford a
> > bigger social sector and I can't for the life of me understand why we
> > allow competition through crap wages and conditions.
>
> > A great deal of what we pay for could be available more or less free.
> > Educational content and utility banking are examples - these are areas
> > that could be ratinalised like agriculture and manufacturing.
> > Millions of jobs would go. We should be asking why jobs are so
> > central to out thinking on wealth distribution and how we might
> > encourage work without the rat race.
--
This is from the Bank of England:
Over the course of the past 800 years, the terms of trade between the
state and the banks have first swung decisively one way and then the
other. For the majority of this period, the state was reliant on the
deep pockets of the banks to finance periodic fiscal crises. But for
at least the past century the pendulum has swung back, with the state
often needing to dig deep to keep crisis-prone banks afloat.
Events of the past two years have tested even the deep pockets of many
states. In so doing, they have added momentum to the century-long
pendulum swing. Reversing direction will not be easy. It is likely to
require a financial sector reform effort every bit as radical as
followed the Great Depression. It is an open question whether reform
efforts to date, while slowing the swing, can bring about that change
of direction.
On 31 Oct, 13:58, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Just in case my fuel from thin air is confused with some conspiracy on
> the matter - the following is the New Scentist state of play.
>
> Last week, Air Fuel Synthesis (AFS), a company in Stockton, UK,
> revealed the first successful demonstration of an idea that dates back
> to the oil crisis of the 1970s: that carbon, hydrogen and oxygen can
> be plucked from carbon dioxide and water in air to be converted into
> methanol and then morphed into gasoline.
> However, amidst the headlines, some media coverage overlooked the key
> point: the energy efficiency of the process has yet to be
> demonstrated. This matters because the technique uses electricity for
> key stages. The inventors hope to use renewable energy sources to
> supply this, but it's not yet clear if the system will be able to
> produce fuel at an affordable price.
> The big idea is to capture atmospheric CO2 and turn it into fuel so
> there's no net increase in CO2 from cars and trucks fuelled by such
> gasoline. As long as the process is powered by renewable electricity
> sources such as solar, wind or tidal, using the gasoline is carbon
> neutral.
>
> The AFS plant comprises a CO2 capture unit in one shipping container,
> with a methanol reactor and miniature gasoline refining system in
> another. Air is blown into a sodium hydroxide mist, snagging CO2 as
> sodium carbonate. A condenser collects water from the same air. To
> make methanol – formula CH3OH – hydrogen is generated by electrolysing
> the water while the carbon and oxygen come from electrolysing the
> sodium carbonate. The methanol is then converted to gasoline.
> Following tests over the last three months, AFS chief executive Peter
> Harrison says the demonstrator reliably produces half-a-litre of
> gasoline a day. Peter Edwards ,an inorganic chemist at the University
> of Oxford whose team is working with a Saudi firm on similar ideas, is
> impressed: "I take my hat off to Air Fuel Synthesis. They have taken a
> concept that has been around for 35 years and gotten the process
> going."
>
> But Harrison points out the demonstrator, funded with a £1.2 million,
> two-year investment from private backers, was built to make gasoline,
> "not to prove its net efficiency or energy balances".
>
> Douglas Stephan, a chemist at the University of Toronto, Canada, also
> researching fuel production from CO2, describes AFS's demonstrator as
> "an engineering tour-de-force". But he too warns efficiency is the
> key. "Until a detailed assessment of the energy efficiency is
> enunciated, I would remain sceptical about this technology," he says.
>
> Andrew Bocarsly, chief science advisor at Liquid Light Inc, a company
> in Monmouth Junction, New Jersey, aiming to synthesise chemicals like
> methanol from CO2, points out that many researchers worldwide have so
> far failed to find cost-effective and efficient ways to split hydrogen
> from water.
>
> "I do wonder about the cost efficiency of their chemical conversion
> processes," he says, noting energy is required to back convert
> carbonate to gaseous CO2, to liberate hydrogen from water, to convert
> the hydrogen and CO2 to methanol and to transform methanol to
> gasoline.
>
> AFS says demonstrating efficiency will have to wait for a bigger
> plant, which will fit into three shipping containers that can be
> dropped anywhere fuel is needed and produce 1200 litres of gasoline a
> day. Harrison says motorsport venues, keen to reduce their fossil fuel
> dependence, and some remote islands have expressed an interest in
> these £5 million units. "The demonstrator has given us the confidence
> that this next level of gasoline plant will be efficient enough," says
> AFS marketing manager Graham Truscott.
> Harrison says the ultimate goal is to build refinery-sized plants that
> could compete with oil – but he says they could cost £10 billion and
> need serious government aid. That in turn would need serious proof of
> energy efficiency. Bocarsly adds: "This issue will be the test for
> commercialisation."
>
> There's one more factor to consider, says Edwards: "The efficiency of
> this process would also have to be balanced against the cost of
> alternative measures like burying or dumping CO2 underground."
>
> There remain big questions on how to get more finance into such areas
> - neither banks nor governments are much good at it.
>
> On 31 Oct, 13:32, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Russell did something called 'In Praise of Idleness' Andrew.
> > Definition in politics and economics is in a dire state. I think it's
> > all stuck in the mud of Bacon's Idols and can't cross the line to
> > science. We can fairly reliably define work in physics as mass
> > through distance and acceleration (complicated by stuff such as
> > friction - modern thermodynamics extends theoretically to a
> > replacement of gravity). In human affairs I suspect a freed slave has
> > a different idea of work than some freak 'making' millions front-
> > running trades.
>
> > Most of us would probably think a return of decent paid jobs would
> > improve the economy - but underlying this is little radical in
> > definition of work - we really conflate jobs with income
> > distribution. The deep questions are beyond the work ethics we have
> > soaked up and concern how much work we need to do and how to share the
> > burden and be able to encourage work motivation and quality.
>
> > In ideology I support a global association of free workers and a
> > collective free-table. I know this is pie in the sky - but I would
> > like to radicalise work motivation away from compulsion to provide
> > necessities and affluence in privacy. I would see primitive or
> > utility banking as necessary under-pinning of this. We can't continue
> > with financial services as the biggest tax parasite of all time.
> > After years in the game I see most innovation-talk as Mumbojumbo - we
> > don't link it to improved quality of life.
>
> > We can now make petrol from air (water vapour, carbon dioxide - to
> > methanol which can be cracked up to petrol) - there are working
> > prototypes. I'm inclined to the view that our ways of making money
> > from production are more of a barrier to such innovation than a help -
> > and remember investment in such is tiny in comparison to property and
> > other fetish bubbles. The bugbear lurking in my Unsaid here is we can
> > hardly trust government organisation and would need a new form of
> > that.
>
> > On 31 Oct, 11:56, andrew vecsey <andrewvec...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > I published a video about my opinion of what work is that I would like to
> > > share. First you play, then you work and then you think. The virtues of
> > > laziness. See YouTube videohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgAtlTnWi30
> > > **
>
> > > The text of the video is below.*
> > > *
>
> > > *The art of work and play*
>
> > > Work, as seen by the sharp eyes of children, is a game adults play for
> > > money. Because all games have rules, to make your work into a game, you
> > > have to follow some rules. The first rule of games is not to aim too high
> > > if you want to enjoy the game. The second rule is not to take the game too
> > > seriously. It's not about winning or losing, but about how you play the
> > > game. So if you want to have a good game, you have to play it right.
>
> > > The higher quality you aim for, the lower quantity you hit. If 80% is too
> > > low for you, you can reach for 90% at twice the cost, effort, time, and
> > > stress. An additional danger is being perceived as better than you are and
> > > being expected to maintain your high level. Prolonged, this can make you or
> > > break you. If it breaks you, you get a burnout. If you get too badly
> > > burned, you can suffer a nervous breakdown.
>
> > > Because we live in a very superficial world where appearance is valued
> > > more than substance, you can take advantage of this. If you cover cracked
> > > or stained floors or walls with pictures, plants or stones, you save
> > > yourself time and money from repairing them.
>
> > > Because the beginning and the end of things are more important than their
> > > middle, you can take advantage of this. You don`t have to cook a fancy meal
> > > to impress. A few fancy appetizers, wine and a rich creamy dessert is all
> > > it takes, saving you time and money.
>
> > > Practical tips to save time and energy:
>
> > > -
>
> > > Use the carpet as temporary places to sweep things under. Works with
> > > indoor as well as outdoor carpets. Instead of chasing leaves in the wind,
> > > sweep them under the doormat. They will get pressed into doormats
> > > themselves that can be at a later time easily rolled up and discarded as
> > > compost behind the closest bush.
> > > -
>
> > > Don`t clean the the whole thing just because it has a spot of dirt on
> > > it. Just clean the spot. This is useful not only for bulky things like
> > > carpets and coats, but also for floors and shirts.
> > > -
>
> > > Develop a chronological universal filing system, not only for your
> > > office papers, but for your clothes as well. This way the newest things you
> > > receive will be always on the top and the oldest things always on the
> > > bottom making things easy to find quickly.
> > > -
>
> > > Don`t do things now when you can do them in the last moment. If you do
> > > them now, it will take longer than if you do them the last minute. And if
> > > you do them now, you will probably re do them in the last minute anyways,
> > > so save yourself the trouble.
> > > -
>
> > > Don`t make things complicated when you can make them simple.
> > > -
>
> > > Adjust your speed according to the quality to quantity ratio you aim
> > > for. And don`t aim too high.
>
> > > Below is an example of how you could make your work more enjoyable and more
> > > like a game if you happened to be a janitor.
>
> > > -
>
> > > Call yourself a "certified
>
> ...
>
> read more »
--
Over the course of the past 800 years, the terms of trade between the
state and the banks have first swung decisively one way and then the
other. For the majority of this period, the state was reliant on the
deep pockets of the banks to finance periodic fiscal crises. But for
at least the past century the pendulum has swung back, with the state
often needing to dig deep to keep crisis-prone banks afloat.
Events of the past two years have tested even the deep pockets of many
states. In so doing, they have added momentum to the century-long
pendulum swing. Reversing direction will not be easy. It is likely to
require a financial sector reform effort every bit as radical as
followed the Great Depression. It is an open question whether reform
efforts to date, while slowing the swing, can bring about that change
of direction.
On 31 Oct, 13:58, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Just in case my fuel from thin air is confused with some conspiracy on
> the matter - the following is the New Scentist state of play.
>
> Last week, Air Fuel Synthesis (AFS), a company in Stockton, UK,
> revealed the first successful demonstration of an idea that dates back
> to the oil crisis of the 1970s: that carbon, hydrogen and oxygen can
> be plucked from carbon dioxide and water in air to be converted into
> methanol and then morphed into gasoline.
> However, amidst the headlines, some media coverage overlooked the key
> point: the energy efficiency of the process has yet to be
> demonstrated. This matters because the technique uses electricity for
> key stages. The inventors hope to use renewable energy sources to
> supply this, but it's not yet clear if the system will be able to
> produce fuel at an affordable price.
> The big idea is to capture atmospheric CO2 and turn it into fuel so
> there's no net increase in CO2 from cars and trucks fuelled by such
> gasoline. As long as the process is powered by renewable electricity
> sources such as solar, wind or tidal, using the gasoline is carbon
> neutral.
>
> The AFS plant comprises a CO2 capture unit in one shipping container,
> with a methanol reactor and miniature gasoline refining system in
> another. Air is blown into a sodium hydroxide mist, snagging CO2 as
> sodium carbonate. A condenser collects water from the same air. To
> make methanol – formula CH3OH – hydrogen is generated by electrolysing
> the water while the carbon and oxygen come from electrolysing the
> sodium carbonate. The methanol is then converted to gasoline.
> Following tests over the last three months, AFS chief executive Peter
> Harrison says the demonstrator reliably produces half-a-litre of
> gasoline a day. Peter Edwards ,an inorganic chemist at the University
> of Oxford whose team is working with a Saudi firm on similar ideas, is
> impressed: "I take my hat off to Air Fuel Synthesis. They have taken a
> concept that has been around for 35 years and gotten the process
> going."
>
> But Harrison points out the demonstrator, funded with a £1.2 million,
> two-year investment from private backers, was built to make gasoline,
> "not to prove its net efficiency or energy balances".
>
> Douglas Stephan, a chemist at the University of Toronto, Canada, also
> researching fuel production from CO2, describes AFS's demonstrator as
> "an engineering tour-de-force". But he too warns efficiency is the
> key. "Until a detailed assessment of the energy efficiency is
> enunciated, I would remain sceptical about this technology," he says.
>
> Andrew Bocarsly, chief science advisor at Liquid Light Inc, a company
> in Monmouth Junction, New Jersey, aiming to synthesise chemicals like
> methanol from CO2, points out that many researchers worldwide have so
> far failed to find cost-effective and efficient ways to split hydrogen
> from water.
>
> "I do wonder about the cost efficiency of their chemical conversion
> processes," he says, noting energy is required to back convert
> carbonate to gaseous CO2, to liberate hydrogen from water, to convert
> the hydrogen and CO2 to methanol and to transform methanol to
> gasoline.
>
> AFS says demonstrating efficiency will have to wait for a bigger
> plant, which will fit into three shipping containers that can be
> dropped anywhere fuel is needed and produce 1200 litres of gasoline a
> day. Harrison says motorsport venues, keen to reduce their fossil fuel
> dependence, and some remote islands have expressed an interest in
> these £5 million units. "The demonstrator has given us the confidence
> that this next level of gasoline plant will be efficient enough," says
> AFS marketing manager Graham Truscott.
> Harrison says the ultimate goal is to build refinery-sized plants that
> could compete with oil – but he says they could cost £10 billion and
> need serious government aid. That in turn would need serious proof of
> energy efficiency. Bocarsly adds: "This issue will be the test for
> commercialisation."
>
> There's one more factor to consider, says Edwards: "The efficiency of
> this process would also have to be balanced against the cost of
> alternative measures like burying or dumping CO2 underground."
>
> There remain big questions on how to get more finance into such areas
> - neither banks nor governments are much good at it.
>
> On 31 Oct, 13:32, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Russell did something called 'In Praise of Idleness' Andrew.
> > Definition in politics and economics is in a dire state. I think it's
> > all stuck in the mud of Bacon's Idols and can't cross the line to
> > science. We can fairly reliably define work in physics as mass
> > through distance and acceleration (complicated by stuff such as
> > friction - modern thermodynamics extends theoretically to a
> > replacement of gravity). In human affairs I suspect a freed slave has
> > a different idea of work than some freak 'making' millions front-
> > running trades.
>
> > Most of us would probably think a return of decent paid jobs would
> > improve the economy - but underlying this is little radical in
> > definition of work - we really conflate jobs with income
> > distribution. The deep questions are beyond the work ethics we have
> > soaked up and concern how much work we need to do and how to share the
> > burden and be able to encourage work motivation and quality.
>
> > In ideology I support a global association of free workers and a
> > collective free-table. I know this is pie in the sky - but I would
> > like to radicalise work motivation away from compulsion to provide
> > necessities and affluence in privacy. I would see primitive or
> > utility banking as necessary under-pinning of this. We can't continue
> > with financial services as the biggest tax parasite of all time.
> > After years in the game I see most innovation-talk as Mumbojumbo - we
> > don't link it to improved quality of life.
>
> > We can now make petrol from air (water vapour, carbon dioxide - to
> > methanol which can be cracked up to petrol) - there are working
> > prototypes. I'm inclined to the view that our ways of making money
> > from production are more of a barrier to such innovation than a help -
> > and remember investment in such is tiny in comparison to property and
> > other fetish bubbles. The bugbear lurking in my Unsaid here is we can
> > hardly trust government organisation and would need a new form of
> > that.
>
> > On 31 Oct, 11:56, andrew vecsey <andrewvec...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > I published a video about my opinion of what work is that I would like to
> > > share. First you play, then you work and then you think. The virtues of
> > > laziness. See YouTube videohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgAtlTnWi30
> > > **
>
> > > The text of the video is below.*
> > > *
>
> > > *The art of work and play*
>
> > > Work, as seen by the sharp eyes of children, is a game adults play for
> > > money. Because all games have rules, to make your work into a game, you
> > > have to follow some rules. The first rule of games is not to aim too high
> > > if you want to enjoy the game. The second rule is not to take the game too
> > > seriously. It's not about winning or losing, but about how you play the
> > > game. So if you want to have a good game, you have to play it right.
>
> > > The higher quality you aim for, the lower quantity you hit. If 80% is too
> > > low for you, you can reach for 90% at twice the cost, effort, time, and
> > > stress. An additional danger is being perceived as better than you are and
> > > being expected to maintain your high level. Prolonged, this can make you or
> > > break you. If it breaks you, you get a burnout. If you get too badly
> > > burned, you can suffer a nervous breakdown.
>
> > > Because we live in a very superficial world where appearance is valued
> > > more than substance, you can take advantage of this. If you cover cracked
> > > or stained floors or walls with pictures, plants or stones, you save
> > > yourself time and money from repairing them.
>
> > > Because the beginning and the end of things are more important than their
> > > middle, you can take advantage of this. You don`t have to cook a fancy meal
> > > to impress. A few fancy appetizers, wine and a rich creamy dessert is all
> > > it takes, saving you time and money.
>
> > > Practical tips to save time and energy:
>
> > > -
>
> > > Use the carpet as temporary places to sweep things under. Works with
> > > indoor as well as outdoor carpets. Instead of chasing leaves in the wind,
> > > sweep them under the doormat. They will get pressed into doormats
> > > themselves that can be at a later time easily rolled up and discarded as
> > > compost behind the closest bush.
> > > -
>
> > > Don`t clean the the whole thing just because it has a spot of dirt on
> > > it. Just clean the spot. This is useful not only for bulky things like
> > > carpets and coats, but also for floors and shirts.
> > > -
>
> > > Develop a chronological universal filing system, not only for your
> > > office papers, but for your clothes as well. This way the newest things you
> > > receive will be always on the top and the oldest things always on the
> > > bottom making things easy to find quickly.
> > > -
>
> > > Don`t do things now when you can do them in the last moment. If you do
> > > them now, it will take longer than if you do them the last minute. And if
> > > you do them now, you will probably re do them in the last minute anyways,
> > > so save yourself the trouble.
> > > -
>
> > > Don`t make things complicated when you can make them simple.
> > > -
>
> > > Adjust your speed according to the quality to quantity ratio you aim
> > > for. And don`t aim too high.
>
> > > Below is an example of how you could make your work more enjoyable and more
> > > like a game if you happened to be a janitor.
>
> > > -
>
> > > Call yourself a "certified
>
> ...
>
> read more »
--
Just in case my fuel from thin air is confused with some conspiracy on
the matter - the following is the New Scentist state of play.
Last week, Air Fuel Synthesis (AFS), a company in Stockton, UK,
revealed the first successful demonstration of an idea that dates back
to the oil crisis of the 1970s: that carbon, hydrogen and oxygen can
be plucked from carbon dioxide and water in air to be converted into
methanol and then morphed into gasoline.
However, amidst the headlines, some media coverage overlooked the key
point: the energy efficiency of the process has yet to be
demonstrated. This matters because the technique uses electricity for
key stages. The inventors hope to use renewable energy sources to
supply this, but it's not yet clear if the system will be able to
produce fuel at an affordable price.
The big idea is to capture atmospheric CO2 and turn it into fuel so
there's no net increase in CO2 from cars and trucks fuelled by such
gasoline. As long as the process is powered by renewable electricity
sources such as solar, wind or tidal, using the gasoline is carbon
neutral.
The AFS plant comprises a CO2 capture unit in one shipping container,
with a methanol reactor and miniature gasoline refining system in
another. Air is blown into a sodium hydroxide mist, snagging CO2 as
sodium carbonate. A condenser collects water from the same air. To
make methanol – formula CH3OH – hydrogen is generated by electrolysing
the water while the carbon and oxygen come from electrolysing the
sodium carbonate. The methanol is then converted to gasoline.
Following tests over the last three months, AFS chief executive Peter
Harrison says the demonstrator reliably produces half-a-litre of
gasoline a day. Peter Edwards ,an inorganic chemist at the University
of Oxford whose team is working with a Saudi firm on similar ideas, is
impressed: "I take my hat off to Air Fuel Synthesis. They have taken a
concept that has been around for 35 years and gotten the process
going."
But Harrison points out the demonstrator, funded with a £1.2 million,
two-year investment from private backers, was built to make gasoline,
"not to prove its net efficiency or energy balances".
Douglas Stephan, a chemist at the University of Toronto, Canada, also
researching fuel production from CO2, describes AFS's demonstrator as
"an engineering tour-de-force". But he too warns efficiency is the
key. "Until a detailed assessment of the energy efficiency is
enunciated, I would remain sceptical about this technology," he says.
Andrew Bocarsly, chief science advisor at Liquid Light Inc, a company
in Monmouth Junction, New Jersey, aiming to synthesise chemicals like
methanol from CO2, points out that many researchers worldwide have so
far failed to find cost-effective and efficient ways to split hydrogen
from water.
"I do wonder about the cost efficiency of their chemical conversion
processes," he says, noting energy is required to back convert
carbonate to gaseous CO2, to liberate hydrogen from water, to convert
the hydrogen and CO2 to methanol and to transform methanol to
gasoline.
AFS says demonstrating efficiency will have to wait for a bigger
plant, which will fit into three shipping containers that can be
dropped anywhere fuel is needed and produce 1200 litres of gasoline a
day. Harrison says motorsport venues, keen to reduce their fossil fuel
dependence, and some remote islands have expressed an interest in
these £5 million units. "The demonstrator has given us the confidence
that this next level of gasoline plant will be efficient enough," says
AFS marketing manager Graham Truscott.
Harrison says the ultimate goal is to build refinery-sized plants that
could compete with oil – but he says they could cost £10 billion and
need serious government aid. That in turn would need serious proof of
energy efficiency. Bocarsly adds: "This issue will be the test for
commercialisation."
There's one more factor to consider, says Edwards: "The efficiency of
this process would also have to be balanced against the cost of
alternative measures like burying or dumping CO2 underground."
There remain big questions on how to get more finance into such areas
- neither banks nor governments are much good at it.
On 31 Oct, 13:32, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Russell did something called 'In Praise of Idleness' Andrew.
> Definition in politics and economics is in a dire state. I think it's
> all stuck in the mud of Bacon's Idols and can't cross the line to
> science. We can fairly reliably define work in physics as mass
> through distance and acceleration (complicated by stuff such as
> friction - modern thermodynamics extends theoretically to a
> replacement of gravity). In human affairs I suspect a freed slave has
> a different idea of work than some freak 'making' millions front-
> running trades.
>
> Most of us would probably think a return of decent paid jobs would
> improve the economy - but underlying this is little radical in
> definition of work - we really conflate jobs with income
> distribution. The deep questions are beyond the work ethics we have
> soaked up and concern how much work we need to do and how to share the
> burden and be able to encourage work motivation and quality.
>
> In ideology I support a global association of free workers and a
> collective free-table. I know this is pie in the sky - but I would
> like to radicalise work motivation away from compulsion to provide
> necessities and affluence in privacy. I would see primitive or
> utility banking as necessary under-pinning of this. We can't continue
> with financial services as the biggest tax parasite of all time.
> After years in the game I see most innovation-talk as Mumbojumbo - we
> don't link it to improved quality of life.
>
> We can now make petrol from air (water vapour, carbon dioxide - to
> methanol which can be cracked up to petrol) - there are working
> prototypes. I'm inclined to the view that our ways of making money
> from production are more of a barrier to such innovation than a help -
> and remember investment in such is tiny in comparison to property and
> other fetish bubbles. The bugbear lurking in my Unsaid here is we can
> hardly trust government organisation and would need a new form of
> that.
>
> On 31 Oct, 11:56, andrew vecsey <andrewvec...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > I published a video about my opinion of what work is that I would like to
> > share. First you play, then you work and then you think. The virtues of
> > laziness. See YouTube videohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgAtlTnWi30
> > **
>
> > The text of the video is below.*
> > *
>
> > *The art of work and play*
>
> > Work, as seen by the sharp eyes of children, is a game adults play for
> > money. Because all games have rules, to make your work into a game, you
> > have to follow some rules. The first rule of games is not to aim too high
> > if you want to enjoy the game. The second rule is not to take the game too
> > seriously. It's not about winning or losing, but about how you play the
> > game. So if you want to have a good game, you have to play it right.
>
> > The higher quality you aim for, the lower quantity you hit. If 80% is too
> > low for you, you can reach for 90% at twice the cost, effort, time, and
> > stress. An additional danger is being perceived as better than you are and
> > being expected to maintain your high level. Prolonged, this can make you or
> > break you. If it breaks you, you get a burnout. If you get too badly
> > burned, you can suffer a nervous breakdown.
>
> > Because we live in a very superficial world where appearance is valued
> > more than substance, you can take advantage of this. If you cover cracked
> > or stained floors or walls with pictures, plants or stones, you save
> > yourself time and money from repairing them.
>
> > Because the beginning and the end of things are more important than their
> > middle, you can take advantage of this. You don`t have to cook a fancy meal
> > to impress. A few fancy appetizers, wine and a rich creamy dessert is all
> > it takes, saving you time and money.
>
> > Practical tips to save time and energy:
>
> > -
>
> > Use the carpet as temporary places to sweep things under. Works with
> > indoor as well as outdoor carpets. Instead of chasing leaves in the wind,
> > sweep them under the doormat. They will get pressed into doormats
> > themselves that can be at a later time easily rolled up and discarded as
> > compost behind the closest bush.
> > -
>
> > Don`t clean the the whole thing just because it has a spot of dirt on
> > it. Just clean the spot. This is useful not only for bulky things like
> > carpets and coats, but also for floors and shirts.
> > -
>
> > Develop a chronological universal filing system, not only for your
> > office papers, but for your clothes as well. This way the newest things you
> > receive will be always on the top and the oldest things always on the
> > bottom making things easy to find quickly.
> > -
>
> > Don`t do things now when you can do them in the last moment. If you do
> > them now, it will take longer than if you do them the last minute. And if
> > you do them now, you will probably re do them in the last minute anyways,
> > so save yourself the trouble.
> > -
>
> > Don`t make things complicated when you can make them simple.
> > -
>
> > Adjust your speed according to the quality to quantity ratio you aim
> > for. And don`t aim too high.
>
> > Below is an example of how you could make your work more enjoyable and more
> > like a game if you happened to be a janitor.
>
> > -
>
> > Call yourself a "certified manager of halls, stairs, parking lot and the
> > garden".
> > -
>
> > Don't play the extra role of policeman.
> > -
>
> > Don`t socialize with the tenants but do take the opportunity to help the
> > tenants carry thing up the stairs whenever you see them struggling. This
> > act of kindness reaps great rewards.
> > -
>
> > Your presence is more important than shiny stairs.
> > -
>
> > Concentrate on cleaning the few places most used. Wipe clean the front
> > door and the mailboxes so that tenants notice you have been around.
> > -
>
> > Never let the stairs get shiny clean. Allow them every once in a while
> > to get a bit dirty, like stairs normally get so that the tenants notice
> > that you have cleaned them.
> > -
>
> > Mop the stairs every week with the biggest flat mop you can buy, and use
> > the hottest water you have.
> > -
>
> > Never use soap and have ready statistics on the dangers of slippery
> > stairs.
> > -
>
> > Allow tenants to leave their shoes outside the hall by their door. You
> > have less floor to clean.
> > -
>
> > Never ask the residents if everything is OK. This show of interest reaps
> > great problems for you.
>
> > Tips on efficient outside work.
>
> > -
>
> > It is easier to keep grass short and cut it more often than to let it
> > grow and cut it when it is high. When you cut every week, then you do not
> > have to worry about collecting and disposing them behind bushes. Hand
> > operated lawn mower and clippers are the best as you do not have to worry
> > about repairs, batteries, cables, or fuel.
> > -
>
> > Ask the tenants to let the weeds grow saying that someone wants to use
> > them as a herbal tea for a debilitating disease they suffer from.
> > -
>
> > Shovel snow or rake leaves to the side making piles for children to play
> > in and on.
>
> > The brain is only 2% of the weight of a body but uses 20% of the energy,
> > about 20 Watts worth. 60 minutes of heavy thinking burns about 100
> > calories. This is about the same as 15 minutes of moving furniture or 30
> > minutes of washing dishes.
>
> > By working like your work was a game, you save a great deal of time and
> > money. The more time you save the more time you have to spend on your most
> > important gift and your greatest talent; thinking.
>
> > On Wednesday, October 31, 2012 3:53:30 AM UTC+1, rigsy03 wrote:
>
> > > It is also bribery by entitlements for votes-overextended bureaucracy-
> > > degradation of work and nobly acquired wealth/property- theft by
> > > redistribution- loopholes- uncivil politics- false standards and
> > > aspirations- etc. How do you define work?
>
> > > On Oct 30, 7:36 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > A waiter in Rome explained where the 100 Euros our meal for two went -
> > > > there were three tiers of owners before he talked about tax! Very
> > > > little of our money is invested in productive organisation rigsy - as
> > > > low as 15%. The rest is in a bloat system to do with speculation on
> > > > very ordinary stuff like our houses and property - even this would be
> > > > OK if the financiers weren't dipping this aspect of our collective
> > > > wallet. My guess is the real cause of current problems is the
> > > > detachment of work from wealth and some general problems similar to
> > > > the waiter's complaint on the number of rents to pay.
> > > > Current thinking has most of the bloat system as a Ponzi scheme based
> > > > on inflation replacing new investor money in the traditional scheme or
> > > > pyramid. The Japanese went into it long before we did because of land
> > > > restrictions. It was the mid-eighties when I was there and people
> > > > were buying options on as yet and never to be built golf courses and
> > > > mortgages were often three generations long.
>
> > > > The big economics term is 'rent' - but this really means 'accumulated
> > > > rip-off privilege' (or idlers) as in the waiter's complaint. Some
> > > > companies I worked for were so dumb they didn't even do overnight
> > > > banking - though one notes the banks were smart enough not to offer it
> > > > and take the profit themselves. Economics is like trying to do
> > > > biology from Aristotle - stuck in the non-modern. It would be
> > > > interesting to take Don's (say) views I mostly agree with apart - our
> > > > system is not based on such sound sense - it just pretends to be. We
>
> ...
>
> read more »
--
the matter - the following is the New Scentist state of play.
Last week, Air Fuel Synthesis (AFS), a company in Stockton, UK,
revealed the first successful demonstration of an idea that dates back
to the oil crisis of the 1970s: that carbon, hydrogen and oxygen can
be plucked from carbon dioxide and water in air to be converted into
methanol and then morphed into gasoline.
However, amidst the headlines, some media coverage overlooked the key
point: the energy efficiency of the process has yet to be
demonstrated. This matters because the technique uses electricity for
key stages. The inventors hope to use renewable energy sources to
supply this, but it's not yet clear if the system will be able to
produce fuel at an affordable price.
The big idea is to capture atmospheric CO2 and turn it into fuel so
there's no net increase in CO2 from cars and trucks fuelled by such
gasoline. As long as the process is powered by renewable electricity
sources such as solar, wind or tidal, using the gasoline is carbon
neutral.
The AFS plant comprises a CO2 capture unit in one shipping container,
with a methanol reactor and miniature gasoline refining system in
another. Air is blown into a sodium hydroxide mist, snagging CO2 as
sodium carbonate. A condenser collects water from the same air. To
make methanol – formula CH3OH – hydrogen is generated by electrolysing
the water while the carbon and oxygen come from electrolysing the
sodium carbonate. The methanol is then converted to gasoline.
Following tests over the last three months, AFS chief executive Peter
Harrison says the demonstrator reliably produces half-a-litre of
gasoline a day. Peter Edwards ,an inorganic chemist at the University
of Oxford whose team is working with a Saudi firm on similar ideas, is
impressed: "I take my hat off to Air Fuel Synthesis. They have taken a
concept that has been around for 35 years and gotten the process
going."
But Harrison points out the demonstrator, funded with a £1.2 million,
two-year investment from private backers, was built to make gasoline,
"not to prove its net efficiency or energy balances".
Douglas Stephan, a chemist at the University of Toronto, Canada, also
researching fuel production from CO2, describes AFS's demonstrator as
"an engineering tour-de-force". But he too warns efficiency is the
key. "Until a detailed assessment of the energy efficiency is
enunciated, I would remain sceptical about this technology," he says.
Andrew Bocarsly, chief science advisor at Liquid Light Inc, a company
in Monmouth Junction, New Jersey, aiming to synthesise chemicals like
methanol from CO2, points out that many researchers worldwide have so
far failed to find cost-effective and efficient ways to split hydrogen
from water.
"I do wonder about the cost efficiency of their chemical conversion
processes," he says, noting energy is required to back convert
carbonate to gaseous CO2, to liberate hydrogen from water, to convert
the hydrogen and CO2 to methanol and to transform methanol to
gasoline.
AFS says demonstrating efficiency will have to wait for a bigger
plant, which will fit into three shipping containers that can be
dropped anywhere fuel is needed and produce 1200 litres of gasoline a
day. Harrison says motorsport venues, keen to reduce their fossil fuel
dependence, and some remote islands have expressed an interest in
these £5 million units. "The demonstrator has given us the confidence
that this next level of gasoline plant will be efficient enough," says
AFS marketing manager Graham Truscott.
Harrison says the ultimate goal is to build refinery-sized plants that
could compete with oil – but he says they could cost £10 billion and
need serious government aid. That in turn would need serious proof of
energy efficiency. Bocarsly adds: "This issue will be the test for
commercialisation."
There's one more factor to consider, says Edwards: "The efficiency of
this process would also have to be balanced against the cost of
alternative measures like burying or dumping CO2 underground."
There remain big questions on how to get more finance into such areas
- neither banks nor governments are much good at it.
On 31 Oct, 13:32, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Russell did something called 'In Praise of Idleness' Andrew.
> Definition in politics and economics is in a dire state. I think it's
> all stuck in the mud of Bacon's Idols and can't cross the line to
> science. We can fairly reliably define work in physics as mass
> through distance and acceleration (complicated by stuff such as
> friction - modern thermodynamics extends theoretically to a
> replacement of gravity). In human affairs I suspect a freed slave has
> a different idea of work than some freak 'making' millions front-
> running trades.
>
> Most of us would probably think a return of decent paid jobs would
> improve the economy - but underlying this is little radical in
> definition of work - we really conflate jobs with income
> distribution. The deep questions are beyond the work ethics we have
> soaked up and concern how much work we need to do and how to share the
> burden and be able to encourage work motivation and quality.
>
> In ideology I support a global association of free workers and a
> collective free-table. I know this is pie in the sky - but I would
> like to radicalise work motivation away from compulsion to provide
> necessities and affluence in privacy. I would see primitive or
> utility banking as necessary under-pinning of this. We can't continue
> with financial services as the biggest tax parasite of all time.
> After years in the game I see most innovation-talk as Mumbojumbo - we
> don't link it to improved quality of life.
>
> We can now make petrol from air (water vapour, carbon dioxide - to
> methanol which can be cracked up to petrol) - there are working
> prototypes. I'm inclined to the view that our ways of making money
> from production are more of a barrier to such innovation than a help -
> and remember investment in such is tiny in comparison to property and
> other fetish bubbles. The bugbear lurking in my Unsaid here is we can
> hardly trust government organisation and would need a new form of
> that.
>
> On 31 Oct, 11:56, andrew vecsey <andrewvec...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > I published a video about my opinion of what work is that I would like to
> > share. First you play, then you work and then you think. The virtues of
> > laziness. See YouTube videohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgAtlTnWi30
> > **
>
> > The text of the video is below.*
> > *
>
> > *The art of work and play*
>
> > Work, as seen by the sharp eyes of children, is a game adults play for
> > money. Because all games have rules, to make your work into a game, you
> > have to follow some rules. The first rule of games is not to aim too high
> > if you want to enjoy the game. The second rule is not to take the game too
> > seriously. It's not about winning or losing, but about how you play the
> > game. So if you want to have a good game, you have to play it right.
>
> > The higher quality you aim for, the lower quantity you hit. If 80% is too
> > low for you, you can reach for 90% at twice the cost, effort, time, and
> > stress. An additional danger is being perceived as better than you are and
> > being expected to maintain your high level. Prolonged, this can make you or
> > break you. If it breaks you, you get a burnout. If you get too badly
> > burned, you can suffer a nervous breakdown.
>
> > Because we live in a very superficial world where appearance is valued
> > more than substance, you can take advantage of this. If you cover cracked
> > or stained floors or walls with pictures, plants or stones, you save
> > yourself time and money from repairing them.
>
> > Because the beginning and the end of things are more important than their
> > middle, you can take advantage of this. You don`t have to cook a fancy meal
> > to impress. A few fancy appetizers, wine and a rich creamy dessert is all
> > it takes, saving you time and money.
>
> > Practical tips to save time and energy:
>
> > -
>
> > Use the carpet as temporary places to sweep things under. Works with
> > indoor as well as outdoor carpets. Instead of chasing leaves in the wind,
> > sweep them under the doormat. They will get pressed into doormats
> > themselves that can be at a later time easily rolled up and discarded as
> > compost behind the closest bush.
> > -
>
> > Don`t clean the the whole thing just because it has a spot of dirt on
> > it. Just clean the spot. This is useful not only for bulky things like
> > carpets and coats, but also for floors and shirts.
> > -
>
> > Develop a chronological universal filing system, not only for your
> > office papers, but for your clothes as well. This way the newest things you
> > receive will be always on the top and the oldest things always on the
> > bottom making things easy to find quickly.
> > -
>
> > Don`t do things now when you can do them in the last moment. If you do
> > them now, it will take longer than if you do them the last minute. And if
> > you do them now, you will probably re do them in the last minute anyways,
> > so save yourself the trouble.
> > -
>
> > Don`t make things complicated when you can make them simple.
> > -
>
> > Adjust your speed according to the quality to quantity ratio you aim
> > for. And don`t aim too high.
>
> > Below is an example of how you could make your work more enjoyable and more
> > like a game if you happened to be a janitor.
>
> > -
>
> > Call yourself a "certified manager of halls, stairs, parking lot and the
> > garden".
> > -
>
> > Don't play the extra role of policeman.
> > -
>
> > Don`t socialize with the tenants but do take the opportunity to help the
> > tenants carry thing up the stairs whenever you see them struggling. This
> > act of kindness reaps great rewards.
> > -
>
> > Your presence is more important than shiny stairs.
> > -
>
> > Concentrate on cleaning the few places most used. Wipe clean the front
> > door and the mailboxes so that tenants notice you have been around.
> > -
>
> > Never let the stairs get shiny clean. Allow them every once in a while
> > to get a bit dirty, like stairs normally get so that the tenants notice
> > that you have cleaned them.
> > -
>
> > Mop the stairs every week with the biggest flat mop you can buy, and use
> > the hottest water you have.
> > -
>
> > Never use soap and have ready statistics on the dangers of slippery
> > stairs.
> > -
>
> > Allow tenants to leave their shoes outside the hall by their door. You
> > have less floor to clean.
> > -
>
> > Never ask the residents if everything is OK. This show of interest reaps
> > great problems for you.
>
> > Tips on efficient outside work.
>
> > -
>
> > It is easier to keep grass short and cut it more often than to let it
> > grow and cut it when it is high. When you cut every week, then you do not
> > have to worry about collecting and disposing them behind bushes. Hand
> > operated lawn mower and clippers are the best as you do not have to worry
> > about repairs, batteries, cables, or fuel.
> > -
>
> > Ask the tenants to let the weeds grow saying that someone wants to use
> > them as a herbal tea for a debilitating disease they suffer from.
> > -
>
> > Shovel snow or rake leaves to the side making piles for children to play
> > in and on.
>
> > The brain is only 2% of the weight of a body but uses 20% of the energy,
> > about 20 Watts worth. 60 minutes of heavy thinking burns about 100
> > calories. This is about the same as 15 minutes of moving furniture or 30
> > minutes of washing dishes.
>
> > By working like your work was a game, you save a great deal of time and
> > money. The more time you save the more time you have to spend on your most
> > important gift and your greatest talent; thinking.
>
> > On Wednesday, October 31, 2012 3:53:30 AM UTC+1, rigsy03 wrote:
>
> > > It is also bribery by entitlements for votes-overextended bureaucracy-
> > > degradation of work and nobly acquired wealth/property- theft by
> > > redistribution- loopholes- uncivil politics- false standards and
> > > aspirations- etc. How do you define work?
>
> > > On Oct 30, 7:36 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > A waiter in Rome explained where the 100 Euros our meal for two went -
> > > > there were three tiers of owners before he talked about tax! Very
> > > > little of our money is invested in productive organisation rigsy - as
> > > > low as 15%. The rest is in a bloat system to do with speculation on
> > > > very ordinary stuff like our houses and property - even this would be
> > > > OK if the financiers weren't dipping this aspect of our collective
> > > > wallet. My guess is the real cause of current problems is the
> > > > detachment of work from wealth and some general problems similar to
> > > > the waiter's complaint on the number of rents to pay.
> > > > Current thinking has most of the bloat system as a Ponzi scheme based
> > > > on inflation replacing new investor money in the traditional scheme or
> > > > pyramid. The Japanese went into it long before we did because of land
> > > > restrictions. It was the mid-eighties when I was there and people
> > > > were buying options on as yet and never to be built golf courses and
> > > > mortgages were often three generations long.
>
> > > > The big economics term is 'rent' - but this really means 'accumulated
> > > > rip-off privilege' (or idlers) as in the waiter's complaint. Some
> > > > companies I worked for were so dumb they didn't even do overnight
> > > > banking - though one notes the banks were smart enough not to offer it
> > > > and take the profit themselves. Economics is like trying to do
> > > > biology from Aristotle - stuck in the non-modern. It would be
> > > > interesting to take Don's (say) views I mostly agree with apart - our
> > > > system is not based on such sound sense - it just pretends to be. We
>
> ...
>
> read more »
--
Sorry Gabs - I did leave the Aristotle space for rigsy - the above
went to the 'tropes of democracy' thread. Does rigsy's snowman always
ring twice?
On 31 Oct, 07:55, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> LOL my problem is Gabby I don't know how to bake..
> Allan
>
> Matrix ** th3 beginning light
> On Oct 31, 2012 8:39 AM, "gabbydott" <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Allan, just download the update for the milk and honey version and get
> > over with it! Always the same complaints with you techy guys!
>
> > On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 8:02 AM, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > has the supreme court of Rigsy ruled that cookies must be supplied on
> > demand??
> > > Allan
>
> > > On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 3:39 AM, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >> You are all very sweet to wish me well but I am safely nestled in
> > >> America's belly. I will join your collective wishes for the east coast
> > >> as it is ruinous and very sad to track.//Catching up: the fall lawn
> > >> clean-up and cut backs were the best ever- hope the snow service is
> > >> the same later on. My daughter has scared me with visions of a sugar
> > >> plum Christmas she remembers from her childhood forgetting that she
> > >> has abscounded with most all the decorations- even to the cookie
> > >> cutters! We'll work it out. Have been getting bedrooms and kitchen in
> > >> gear for the holidays so there isn't a last minute rush/heart attack.
> > >> This house is a riot- but that is another topic. A couple invitations-
> > >> will go to one- a baby shower. Exit the momastery! And yes, Gabby, was
> > >> thinking of the warm sun during these cloudy days and cold nights. Saw
> > >> myself sitting in the desert- very strange. Love to all- be safe.
>
> > >> On Oct 30, 7:53 pm, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>> Yes, hope all is well for you rigsy. In Detroit we have Sandy's wind
> > and a
> > >>> bit of rain and sleet, but nothing like NYC. thinking of you with
> > love.
>
> > >>> On Tuesday, October 30, 2012 5:20:35 PM UTC-4, Allan Heretic wrote:
>
> > >>> > sounds like you are really going to be needing your snow guy Rigsy,,
> > >>> > heard WV had over a meter of snow fall that must be a bitch.
> > >>> > Allan
>
> > >>> > On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 8:56 PM, gabbydott <gabb...@gmail.com
> > <javascript:>>
> > >>> > wrote:
> > >>> > > You see, Neil, that's exactly why I thought we have Rigsy write the
> > >>> > > abstract and make her come out of the kitchen after her snow guy
> > had
> > >>> > > done his job. You have spoiled it all now!
>
> > >>> > > On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 11:25 AM, archytas <nwt...@gmail.com
> > <javascript:>>
> > >>> > wrote:
> > >>> > >> I've just become a paradigm case of Bill's "bored traveller" -
> > long
> > >>> > >> weekend with an American friend in Rome looking at art entailing
> > the
> > >>> > >> Vatican (which didn't spontaneously combust) - Bernini etc.
> > There was
> > >>> > >> a Hombeck on candle-light which will stick forever. I got the
> > >>> > >> impression Bernini could do something in static stone that would
> > give
> > >>> > >> the impression of a Jimmy Johnstone dribble (he was the best ever
> > at
> > >>> > >> this spectacle, if not the most effective player in modern soccer
> > >>> > >> terms). Couldn't get a coffee in the city that never sleeps at 3
> > a.m.
> > >>> > >> and ended-up in a Mcdonalds. The place is a dreadful tourist
> > rip-off
> > >>> > >> and a week would have bankrupted us. Flight home was delayed by
> > an
> > >>> > >> outbreak of Italian indolence and refusal to drive the bus to the
> > >>> > >> plane. Airport full of disgruntled Americans delayed by Sandy.
> > >>> > >> Greece and Rome descend from slave economies and attitudes that
> > work
> > >>> > >> scars the soul.
> > >>> > >> There was so much to see and it was so pleasant to walk I came
> > home
> > >>> > >> hobbling on a blister.
>
> > >>> > >> Much biology is based on the economics of energy - we always seem
> > to
> > >>> > >> want explanation in terms of why an organism would expend the
> > energy
> > >>> > >> required to maintain an organ and so on. Our brains and even
> > memory
> > >>> > >> need justification in energy terms. Much of my own interest in
> > the
> > >>> > >> subject concerns desire to overcome its predestination - which
> > these
> > >>> > >> days would be talked about through the notion of co-evolution and
> > its
> > >>> > >> 'arms races'. My own guess for a long time has been we need to
> > >>> > >> organise work differently - I favour a federal Europe (World) of a
> > >>> > >> free table with work as a shared obligation - but one always finds
> > >>> > >> such opinion has been held before - one example here would be the
> > >>> > >> Strasser brothers who organised the Nazis when Hitler came out of
> > >>> > >> jail. Politically I tend to think we are stuck in the hands of a
> > >>> > >> rentier class much as in the inter-war years.
>
> > >>> > >> I think some UFO-dreaming could help us understand this and even
> > Star
> > >>> > >> Trek touches the fringes. We might, very un-art, start by
> > wondering
> > >>> > >> who cleans the toilets on the Enterprise.
>
> > >>> > >> On 29 Oct, 19:02, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>> > >>> The Golden Way out of deference? Yes, that's probably the meaning
> > >>> > >>> Molly is trying to convey. Thanks, Allan.
>
> > >>> > >>> On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 5:02 PM, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com>
> > >>> > wrote:
> > >>> > >>> > Gabby one of the major deference between me and christianity
> > is I
> > >>> > see
> > >>> > >>> > God as what makes up my being,, I do not see God as being else
> > >>> > where.
> > >>> > >>> > I am expected to live up to my beliefs not making excuses to
> > justify
> > >>> > >>> > violating those rules.
> > >>> > >>> > Allan
>
> > >>> > >>> > On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 1:24 PM, gabbydott <
> > gabbyd...@gmail.com>
> > >>> > wrote:
> > >>> > >>> >> Oh, hi Molly! Yes, it's true, I dared to read the bible on
> > the same
> > >>> > >>> >> level as fairy tales. My Protestant nature, I guess. Going
> > out,
> > >>> > >>> >> looking out, speaking out is part of that tradition too. What
> > is it
> > >>> > in
> > >>> > >>> >> your life that makes you being different?
>
> > >>> > >>> >> On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 1:06 PM, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com>
> > >>> > wrote:
> > >>> > >>> >>> Looking for God outside oneself can lead to magical gang
> > gods at a
> > >>> > level
> > >>> > >>> >>> where only the fit and corrupt survive. Many fairy tales are
> > >>> > imbued with
> > >>> > >>> >>> mystical thinking, including the bible.
>
> > >>> > >>> >>> On Monday, October 29, 2012 5:20:17 AM UTC-4, gabbydott
> > wrote:
>
> > >>> > >>> >>>> I don't know why these far-away and up-above gods and
> > godesses
> > >>> > never
> > >>> > >>> >>>> really made it into my heart. Maybe the down-to-earth fairy
> > tales
> > >>> > >>> >>>> resembled my surroundings much more. It gives me the creeps
> > when
> > >>> > >>> >>>> little street gangstas are referring to Nemesis and believe
> > they
> > >>> > have
> > >>> > >>> >>>> got the key to the kingdom now.
>
> > >>> > >>> >>>> On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 4:35 AM, rigsy03 <rig...@yahoo.com>
> > >>> > wrote:
> > >>> > >>> >>>> > I pray to a God everyday but am not sure which one. He is
> > male
> > >>> > and
> > >>> > >>> >>>> > seems helpful. Today he bolstered my strength rearranging
> > some
> > >>> > >>> >>>> > furniture then rebolstered me moving stuff back as it was.
> > >>> > However, I
> > >>> > >>> >>>> > cooked a hearty meal of steak, potatoes and asparagus for
> > >>> > insurance.//
> > >>> > >>> >>>> > I think the Greek and Roman gods and goddesses represent
> > human
> > >>> > nature
> > >>> > >>> >>>> > and traits- really provide some valuable insights for mere
> > >>> > mortals.
>
> > >>> > >>> >>>> > On Oct 28, 12:45 pm, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >>> > >>> >>>> >> Ah Lee, by that time you would have forgotten where you
> > were
> > >>> > coming
> > >>> > >>> >>>> >> from!
>
> > >>> > >>> >>>> >> I like monotheism, because it supports my view of myself
> > as an
> > >>> > >>> >>>> >> individual. And it allows me to act upon it as such. I am
> > >>> > aware that I
> > >>> > >>> >>>> >> am a social being though. Polytheism would be able to
> > account
> > >>> > for
> > >>> > >>> >>>> >> that, but would probably only confuse me.
>
> > >>> > >>> >>>> >> On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 6:20 PM, Lee Douglas <
> > >>> > leerevdoug...@gmail.com>
> > >>> > >>> >>>> >> wrote:
> > >>> > >>> >>>> >> > Well that is true Rigsy, and perhaps your prediction
> > is also
> > >>> > true.
> > >>> > >>> >>>> >> > However
> > >>> > >>> >>>> >> > religious faith is 'unreasonable' belief. As it is my
> > >>> > stance that we
> > >>> > >>> >>>> >> > all
> > >>> > >>> >>>> >> > hold to some of these along the way, then perhaps it
> > is a
> > >>> > wholly
> > >>> > >>> >>>> >> > human/sentient being trait and we'll not be rid of it,
> > only
> > >>> > time will
> > >>> > >>> >>>> >> > tell.
> > >>> > >>> >>>> >> > Just one of the reasons I want to reach at least 400
> > years
> > >>> > old.
>
> > >>> > >>> >>>> >> > On Sunday, October 28, 2012 12:52:50 PM UTC, rigsy03
> > wrote:
>
> > >>> > >>> >>>> >> >> Really? What about the Italian scientists who face
> > prison
> > >>> > time for
> > >>> > >>> >>>> >> >> failing to predict the severity of an earthquake? What
> > >>> > harmony under
> > >>> > >>> >>>> >> >> the mantle of monotheism? Science and technology will
> > make
> > >>> > god(s)
> > >>> > >>> >>>> >> >> obsolete and society can still be managed through
> > various
> > >>> > value
> > >>> > >>> >>>> >> >> systems based on new realities and methods of control.
> > >>> > Presently, we
> > >>> > >>> >>>> >> >> are trying to integrate two oppositional positions
> > which
> > >>> > accounts
> > >>> > >>> >>>> >> >> for
> > >>> > >>> >>>> >> >> a good amount of absurdity and disappointment. As
> > extinct
> > >>> > creatures
> > >>> > >>> >>>> >> >> might have warned us, sentimentality is deadly.
>
> > >>> > >>> >>>> >> >> On Oct 28, 2:12 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >>> > >>> >>>> >> >> > I really do not see much beyond monotheism atheism
> > holds
>
> ...
>
> read more »
--
went to the 'tropes of democracy' thread. Does rigsy's snowman always
ring twice?
On 31 Oct, 07:55, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> LOL my problem is Gabby I don't know how to bake..
> Allan
>
> Matrix ** th3 beginning light
> On Oct 31, 2012 8:39 AM, "gabbydott" <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Allan, just download the update for the milk and honey version and get
> > over with it! Always the same complaints with you techy guys!
>
> > On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 8:02 AM, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > has the supreme court of Rigsy ruled that cookies must be supplied on
> > demand??
> > > Allan
>
> > > On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 3:39 AM, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >> You are all very sweet to wish me well but I am safely nestled in
> > >> America's belly. I will join your collective wishes for the east coast
> > >> as it is ruinous and very sad to track.//Catching up: the fall lawn
> > >> clean-up and cut backs were the best ever- hope the snow service is
> > >> the same later on. My daughter has scared me with visions of a sugar
> > >> plum Christmas she remembers from her childhood forgetting that she
> > >> has abscounded with most all the decorations- even to the cookie
> > >> cutters! We'll work it out. Have been getting bedrooms and kitchen in
> > >> gear for the holidays so there isn't a last minute rush/heart attack.
> > >> This house is a riot- but that is another topic. A couple invitations-
> > >> will go to one- a baby shower. Exit the momastery! And yes, Gabby, was
> > >> thinking of the warm sun during these cloudy days and cold nights. Saw
> > >> myself sitting in the desert- very strange. Love to all- be safe.
>
> > >> On Oct 30, 7:53 pm, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>> Yes, hope all is well for you rigsy. In Detroit we have Sandy's wind
> > and a
> > >>> bit of rain and sleet, but nothing like NYC. thinking of you with
> > love.
>
> > >>> On Tuesday, October 30, 2012 5:20:35 PM UTC-4, Allan Heretic wrote:
>
> > >>> > sounds like you are really going to be needing your snow guy Rigsy,,
> > >>> > heard WV had over a meter of snow fall that must be a bitch.
> > >>> > Allan
>
> > >>> > On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 8:56 PM, gabbydott <gabb...@gmail.com
> > <javascript:>>
> > >>> > wrote:
> > >>> > > You see, Neil, that's exactly why I thought we have Rigsy write the
> > >>> > > abstract and make her come out of the kitchen after her snow guy
> > had
> > >>> > > done his job. You have spoiled it all now!
>
> > >>> > > On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 11:25 AM, archytas <nwt...@gmail.com
> > <javascript:>>
> > >>> > wrote:
> > >>> > >> I've just become a paradigm case of Bill's "bored traveller" -
> > long
> > >>> > >> weekend with an American friend in Rome looking at art entailing
> > the
> > >>> > >> Vatican (which didn't spontaneously combust) - Bernini etc.
> > There was
> > >>> > >> a Hombeck on candle-light which will stick forever. I got the
> > >>> > >> impression Bernini could do something in static stone that would
> > give
> > >>> > >> the impression of a Jimmy Johnstone dribble (he was the best ever
> > at
> > >>> > >> this spectacle, if not the most effective player in modern soccer
> > >>> > >> terms). Couldn't get a coffee in the city that never sleeps at 3
> > a.m.
> > >>> > >> and ended-up in a Mcdonalds. The place is a dreadful tourist
> > rip-off
> > >>> > >> and a week would have bankrupted us. Flight home was delayed by
> > an
> > >>> > >> outbreak of Italian indolence and refusal to drive the bus to the
> > >>> > >> plane. Airport full of disgruntled Americans delayed by Sandy.
> > >>> > >> Greece and Rome descend from slave economies and attitudes that
> > work
> > >>> > >> scars the soul.
> > >>> > >> There was so much to see and it was so pleasant to walk I came
> > home
> > >>> > >> hobbling on a blister.
>
> > >>> > >> Much biology is based on the economics of energy - we always seem
> > to
> > >>> > >> want explanation in terms of why an organism would expend the
> > energy
> > >>> > >> required to maintain an organ and so on. Our brains and even
> > memory
> > >>> > >> need justification in energy terms. Much of my own interest in
> > the
> > >>> > >> subject concerns desire to overcome its predestination - which
> > these
> > >>> > >> days would be talked about through the notion of co-evolution and
> > its
> > >>> > >> 'arms races'. My own guess for a long time has been we need to
> > >>> > >> organise work differently - I favour a federal Europe (World) of a
> > >>> > >> free table with work as a shared obligation - but one always finds
> > >>> > >> such opinion has been held before - one example here would be the
> > >>> > >> Strasser brothers who organised the Nazis when Hitler came out of
> > >>> > >> jail. Politically I tend to think we are stuck in the hands of a
> > >>> > >> rentier class much as in the inter-war years.
>
> > >>> > >> I think some UFO-dreaming could help us understand this and even
> > Star
> > >>> > >> Trek touches the fringes. We might, very un-art, start by
> > wondering
> > >>> > >> who cleans the toilets on the Enterprise.
>
> > >>> > >> On 29 Oct, 19:02, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>> > >>> The Golden Way out of deference? Yes, that's probably the meaning
> > >>> > >>> Molly is trying to convey. Thanks, Allan.
>
> > >>> > >>> On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 5:02 PM, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com>
> > >>> > wrote:
> > >>> > >>> > Gabby one of the major deference between me and christianity
> > is I
> > >>> > see
> > >>> > >>> > God as what makes up my being,, I do not see God as being else
> > >>> > where.
> > >>> > >>> > I am expected to live up to my beliefs not making excuses to
> > justify
> > >>> > >>> > violating those rules.
> > >>> > >>> > Allan
>
> > >>> > >>> > On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 1:24 PM, gabbydott <
> > gabbyd...@gmail.com>
> > >>> > wrote:
> > >>> > >>> >> Oh, hi Molly! Yes, it's true, I dared to read the bible on
> > the same
> > >>> > >>> >> level as fairy tales. My Protestant nature, I guess. Going
> > out,
> > >>> > >>> >> looking out, speaking out is part of that tradition too. What
> > is it
> > >>> > in
> > >>> > >>> >> your life that makes you being different?
>
> > >>> > >>> >> On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 1:06 PM, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com>
> > >>> > wrote:
> > >>> > >>> >>> Looking for God outside oneself can lead to magical gang
> > gods at a
> > >>> > level
> > >>> > >>> >>> where only the fit and corrupt survive. Many fairy tales are
> > >>> > imbued with
> > >>> > >>> >>> mystical thinking, including the bible.
>
> > >>> > >>> >>> On Monday, October 29, 2012 5:20:17 AM UTC-4, gabbydott
> > wrote:
>
> > >>> > >>> >>>> I don't know why these far-away and up-above gods and
> > godesses
> > >>> > never
> > >>> > >>> >>>> really made it into my heart. Maybe the down-to-earth fairy
> > tales
> > >>> > >>> >>>> resembled my surroundings much more. It gives me the creeps
> > when
> > >>> > >>> >>>> little street gangstas are referring to Nemesis and believe
> > they
> > >>> > have
> > >>> > >>> >>>> got the key to the kingdom now.
>
> > >>> > >>> >>>> On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 4:35 AM, rigsy03 <rig...@yahoo.com>
> > >>> > wrote:
> > >>> > >>> >>>> > I pray to a God everyday but am not sure which one. He is
> > male
> > >>> > and
> > >>> > >>> >>>> > seems helpful. Today he bolstered my strength rearranging
> > some
> > >>> > >>> >>>> > furniture then rebolstered me moving stuff back as it was.
> > >>> > However, I
> > >>> > >>> >>>> > cooked a hearty meal of steak, potatoes and asparagus for
> > >>> > insurance.//
> > >>> > >>> >>>> > I think the Greek and Roman gods and goddesses represent
> > human
> > >>> > nature
> > >>> > >>> >>>> > and traits- really provide some valuable insights for mere
> > >>> > mortals.
>
> > >>> > >>> >>>> > On Oct 28, 12:45 pm, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >>> > >>> >>>> >> Ah Lee, by that time you would have forgotten where you
> > were
> > >>> > coming
> > >>> > >>> >>>> >> from!
>
> > >>> > >>> >>>> >> I like monotheism, because it supports my view of myself
> > as an
> > >>> > >>> >>>> >> individual. And it allows me to act upon it as such. I am
> > >>> > aware that I
> > >>> > >>> >>>> >> am a social being though. Polytheism would be able to
> > account
> > >>> > for
> > >>> > >>> >>>> >> that, but would probably only confuse me.
>
> > >>> > >>> >>>> >> On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 6:20 PM, Lee Douglas <
> > >>> > leerevdoug...@gmail.com>
> > >>> > >>> >>>> >> wrote:
> > >>> > >>> >>>> >> > Well that is true Rigsy, and perhaps your prediction
> > is also
> > >>> > true.
> > >>> > >>> >>>> >> > However
> > >>> > >>> >>>> >> > religious faith is 'unreasonable' belief. As it is my
> > >>> > stance that we
> > >>> > >>> >>>> >> > all
> > >>> > >>> >>>> >> > hold to some of these along the way, then perhaps it
> > is a
> > >>> > wholly
> > >>> > >>> >>>> >> > human/sentient being trait and we'll not be rid of it,
> > only
> > >>> > time will
> > >>> > >>> >>>> >> > tell.
> > >>> > >>> >>>> >> > Just one of the reasons I want to reach at least 400
> > years
> > >>> > old.
>
> > >>> > >>> >>>> >> > On Sunday, October 28, 2012 12:52:50 PM UTC, rigsy03
> > wrote:
>
> > >>> > >>> >>>> >> >> Really? What about the Italian scientists who face
> > prison
> > >>> > time for
> > >>> > >>> >>>> >> >> failing to predict the severity of an earthquake? What
> > >>> > harmony under
> > >>> > >>> >>>> >> >> the mantle of monotheism? Science and technology will
> > make
> > >>> > god(s)
> > >>> > >>> >>>> >> >> obsolete and society can still be managed through
> > various
> > >>> > value
> > >>> > >>> >>>> >> >> systems based on new realities and methods of control.
> > >>> > Presently, we
> > >>> > >>> >>>> >> >> are trying to integrate two oppositional positions
> > which
> > >>> > accounts
> > >>> > >>> >>>> >> >> for
> > >>> > >>> >>>> >> >> a good amount of absurdity and disappointment. As
> > extinct
> > >>> > creatures
> > >>> > >>> >>>> >> >> might have warned us, sentimentality is deadly.
>
> > >>> > >>> >>>> >> >> On Oct 28, 2:12 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >>> > >>> >>>> >> >> > I really do not see much beyond monotheism atheism
> > holds
>
> ...
>
> read more »
--
Russell did something called 'In Praise of Idleness' Andrew.
Definition in politics and economics is in a dire state. I think it's
all stuck in the mud of Bacon's Idols and can't cross the line to
science. We can fairly reliably define work in physics as mass
through distance and acceleration (complicated by stuff such as
friction - modern thermodynamics extends theoretically to a
replacement of gravity). In human affairs I suspect a freed slave has
a different idea of work than some freak 'making' millions front-
running trades.
Most of us would probably think a return of decent paid jobs would
improve the economy - but underlying this is little radical in
definition of work - we really conflate jobs with income
distribution. The deep questions are beyond the work ethics we have
soaked up and concern how much work we need to do and how to share the
burden and be able to encourage work motivation and quality.
In ideology I support a global association of free workers and a
collective free-table. I know this is pie in the sky - but I would
like to radicalise work motivation away from compulsion to provide
necessities and affluence in privacy. I would see primitive or
utility banking as necessary under-pinning of this. We can't continue
with financial services as the biggest tax parasite of all time.
After years in the game I see most innovation-talk as Mumbojumbo - we
don't link it to improved quality of life.
We can now make petrol from air (water vapour, carbon dioxide - to
methanol which can be cracked up to petrol) - there are working
prototypes. I'm inclined to the view that our ways of making money
from production are more of a barrier to such innovation than a help -
and remember investment in such is tiny in comparison to property and
other fetish bubbles. The bugbear lurking in my Unsaid here is we can
hardly trust government organisation and would need a new form of
that.
On 31 Oct, 11:56, andrew vecsey <andrewvec...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I published a video about my opinion of what work is that I would like to
> share. First you play, then you work and then you think. The virtues of
> laziness. See YouTube videohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgAtlTnWi30
> **
>
> The text of the video is below.*
> *
>
> *The art of work and play*
>
> Work, as seen by the sharp eyes of children, is a game adults play for
> money. Because all games have rules, to make your work into a game, you
> have to follow some rules. The first rule of games is not to aim too high
> if you want to enjoy the game. The second rule is not to take the game too
> seriously. It's not about winning or losing, but about how you play the
> game. So if you want to have a good game, you have to play it right.
>
> The higher quality you aim for, the lower quantity you hit. If 80% is too
> low for you, you can reach for 90% at twice the cost, effort, time, and
> stress. An additional danger is being perceived as better than you are and
> being expected to maintain your high level. Prolonged, this can make you or
> break you. If it breaks you, you get a burnout. If you get too badly
> burned, you can suffer a nervous breakdown.
>
> Because we live in a very superficial world where appearance is valued
> more than substance, you can take advantage of this. If you cover cracked
> or stained floors or walls with pictures, plants or stones, you save
> yourself time and money from repairing them.
>
> Because the beginning and the end of things are more important than their
> middle, you can take advantage of this. You don`t have to cook a fancy meal
> to impress. A few fancy appetizers, wine and a rich creamy dessert is all
> it takes, saving you time and money.
>
> Practical tips to save time and energy:
>
> -
>
> Use the carpet as temporary places to sweep things under. Works with
> indoor as well as outdoor carpets. Instead of chasing leaves in the wind,
> sweep them under the doormat. They will get pressed into doormats
> themselves that can be at a later time easily rolled up and discarded as
> compost behind the closest bush.
> -
>
> Don`t clean the the whole thing just because it has a spot of dirt on
> it. Just clean the spot. This is useful not only for bulky things like
> carpets and coats, but also for floors and shirts.
> -
>
> Develop a chronological universal filing system, not only for your
> office papers, but for your clothes as well. This way the newest things you
> receive will be always on the top and the oldest things always on the
> bottom making things easy to find quickly.
> -
>
> Don`t do things now when you can do them in the last moment. If you do
> them now, it will take longer than if you do them the last minute. And if
> you do them now, you will probably re do them in the last minute anyways,
> so save yourself the trouble.
> -
>
> Don`t make things complicated when you can make them simple.
> -
>
> Adjust your speed according to the quality to quantity ratio you aim
> for. And don`t aim too high.
>
> Below is an example of how you could make your work more enjoyable and more
> like a game if you happened to be a janitor.
>
> -
>
> Call yourself a "certified manager of halls, stairs, parking lot and the
> garden".
> -
>
> Don't play the extra role of policeman.
> -
>
> Don`t socialize with the tenants but do take the opportunity to help the
> tenants carry thing up the stairs whenever you see them struggling. This
> act of kindness reaps great rewards.
> -
>
> Your presence is more important than shiny stairs.
> -
>
> Concentrate on cleaning the few places most used. Wipe clean the front
> door and the mailboxes so that tenants notice you have been around.
> -
>
> Never let the stairs get shiny clean. Allow them every once in a while
> to get a bit dirty, like stairs normally get so that the tenants notice
> that you have cleaned them.
> -
>
> Mop the stairs every week with the biggest flat mop you can buy, and use
> the hottest water you have.
> -
>
> Never use soap and have ready statistics on the dangers of slippery
> stairs.
> -
>
> Allow tenants to leave their shoes outside the hall by their door. You
> have less floor to clean.
> -
>
> Never ask the residents if everything is OK. This show of interest reaps
> great problems for you.
>
> Tips on efficient outside work.
>
> -
>
> It is easier to keep grass short and cut it more often than to let it
> grow and cut it when it is high. When you cut every week, then you do not
> have to worry about collecting and disposing them behind bushes. Hand
> operated lawn mower and clippers are the best as you do not have to worry
> about repairs, batteries, cables, or fuel.
> -
>
> Ask the tenants to let the weeds grow saying that someone wants to use
> them as a herbal tea for a debilitating disease they suffer from.
> -
>
> Shovel snow or rake leaves to the side making piles for children to play
> in and on.
>
> The brain is only 2% of the weight of a body but uses 20% of the energy,
> about 20 Watts worth. 60 minutes of heavy thinking burns about 100
> calories. This is about the same as 15 minutes of moving furniture or 30
> minutes of washing dishes.
>
> By working like your work was a game, you save a great deal of time and
> money. The more time you save the more time you have to spend on your most
> important gift and your greatest talent; thinking.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, October 31, 2012 3:53:30 AM UTC+1, rigsy03 wrote:
>
> > It is also bribery by entitlements for votes-overextended bureaucracy-
> > degradation of work and nobly acquired wealth/property- theft by
> > redistribution- loopholes- uncivil politics- false standards and
> > aspirations- etc. How do you define work?
>
> > On Oct 30, 7:36 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > A waiter in Rome explained where the 100 Euros our meal for two went -
> > > there were three tiers of owners before he talked about tax! Very
> > > little of our money is invested in productive organisation rigsy - as
> > > low as 15%. The rest is in a bloat system to do with speculation on
> > > very ordinary stuff like our houses and property - even this would be
> > > OK if the financiers weren't dipping this aspect of our collective
> > > wallet. My guess is the real cause of current problems is the
> > > detachment of work from wealth and some general problems similar to
> > > the waiter's complaint on the number of rents to pay.
> > > Current thinking has most of the bloat system as a Ponzi scheme based
> > > on inflation replacing new investor money in the traditional scheme or
> > > pyramid. The Japanese went into it long before we did because of land
> > > restrictions. It was the mid-eighties when I was there and people
> > > were buying options on as yet and never to be built golf courses and
> > > mortgages were often three generations long.
>
> > > The big economics term is 'rent' - but this really means 'accumulated
> > > rip-off privilege' (or idlers) as in the waiter's complaint. Some
> > > companies I worked for were so dumb they didn't even do overnight
> > > banking - though one notes the banks were smart enough not to offer it
> > > and take the profit themselves. Economics is like trying to do
> > > biology from Aristotle - stuck in the non-modern. It would be
> > > interesting to take Don's (say) views I mostly agree with apart - our
> > > system is not based on such sound sense - it just pretends to be. We
> > > all lack the facts that would make for really practical discussion.
> > > We could have banking without rich bankers - you could soon manipulate
> > > the spreadsheets I use - the problem is you/we can't get the data that
> > > matters because it's already over-theorised to somewhere south of
> > > Hell. I have never found the work as complex as my role in getting a
> > > bit of a ship built.
>
> > > In the end, my suspicion is economics really is war by other means and
> > > we are too scared to form a system that is honest. We cope with
> > > phlogiston theory instead. Unless I find some new work in the next
> > > couple of months I'll be working with Saudis - 99% of that will be
> > > wasted!
>
> > > On 26 Oct, 14:28, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > What about radical spending/debt? What about the non-reward for
> > > > saving?
>
> > > > Lawns should be outlawed and probably will be when clean water is
> > > > precious and rare. I refuse to make coffee from recycled urine or
> > > > other recycled waste water but...the spirit is willing but the flesh
> > > > is weak.
>
> > > > On Oct 23, 7:13 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > Banking is estimated to contribute between 8 and 14% of UK GDP. It
> > > > > will be smaller in most other countries, but is still held to be
> > > > > vital. I doubt the figures but this doesn't really matter At 14%
> > > > > banking matches manufacturing contribution in the UK.
>
> > > > > In a business account we always want to reduce bank charges to a
> > > > > minimum. Financial services are a cost to be reduced to minimum. I
> > > > > can never see why we have fallen for the idea that moving money
> > around
> > > > > has anything to do with a productive economy. We would hardly
> > > > > organise hard work like clearing farm land by matching the number of
> > > > > us breaking our backs with a similar number of bankers sitting in
> > > > > armchairs.
>
> > > > > I tend to think banking is just a front for organised thieving. We
> > > > > cut out all kinds of management and jobs in manufacturing and it's
> > > > > hard to see how piling bank buildings high with staff makes any
> > > > > sense. In science we generally
>
> ...
>
> read more »
--
Definition in politics and economics is in a dire state. I think it's
all stuck in the mud of Bacon's Idols and can't cross the line to
science. We can fairly reliably define work in physics as mass
through distance and acceleration (complicated by stuff such as
friction - modern thermodynamics extends theoretically to a
replacement of gravity). In human affairs I suspect a freed slave has
a different idea of work than some freak 'making' millions front-
running trades.
Most of us would probably think a return of decent paid jobs would
improve the economy - but underlying this is little radical in
definition of work - we really conflate jobs with income
distribution. The deep questions are beyond the work ethics we have
soaked up and concern how much work we need to do and how to share the
burden and be able to encourage work motivation and quality.
In ideology I support a global association of free workers and a
collective free-table. I know this is pie in the sky - but I would
like to radicalise work motivation away from compulsion to provide
necessities and affluence in privacy. I would see primitive or
utility banking as necessary under-pinning of this. We can't continue
with financial services as the biggest tax parasite of all time.
After years in the game I see most innovation-talk as Mumbojumbo - we
don't link it to improved quality of life.
We can now make petrol from air (water vapour, carbon dioxide - to
methanol which can be cracked up to petrol) - there are working
prototypes. I'm inclined to the view that our ways of making money
from production are more of a barrier to such innovation than a help -
and remember investment in such is tiny in comparison to property and
other fetish bubbles. The bugbear lurking in my Unsaid here is we can
hardly trust government organisation and would need a new form of
that.
On 31 Oct, 11:56, andrew vecsey <andrewvec...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I published a video about my opinion of what work is that I would like to
> share. First you play, then you work and then you think. The virtues of
> laziness. See YouTube videohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgAtlTnWi30
> **
>
> The text of the video is below.*
> *
>
> *The art of work and play*
>
> Work, as seen by the sharp eyes of children, is a game adults play for
> money. Because all games have rules, to make your work into a game, you
> have to follow some rules. The first rule of games is not to aim too high
> if you want to enjoy the game. The second rule is not to take the game too
> seriously. It's not about winning or losing, but about how you play the
> game. So if you want to have a good game, you have to play it right.
>
> The higher quality you aim for, the lower quantity you hit. If 80% is too
> low for you, you can reach for 90% at twice the cost, effort, time, and
> stress. An additional danger is being perceived as better than you are and
> being expected to maintain your high level. Prolonged, this can make you or
> break you. If it breaks you, you get a burnout. If you get too badly
> burned, you can suffer a nervous breakdown.
>
> Because we live in a very superficial world where appearance is valued
> more than substance, you can take advantage of this. If you cover cracked
> or stained floors or walls with pictures, plants or stones, you save
> yourself time and money from repairing them.
>
> Because the beginning and the end of things are more important than their
> middle, you can take advantage of this. You don`t have to cook a fancy meal
> to impress. A few fancy appetizers, wine and a rich creamy dessert is all
> it takes, saving you time and money.
>
> Practical tips to save time and energy:
>
> -
>
> Use the carpet as temporary places to sweep things under. Works with
> indoor as well as outdoor carpets. Instead of chasing leaves in the wind,
> sweep them under the doormat. They will get pressed into doormats
> themselves that can be at a later time easily rolled up and discarded as
> compost behind the closest bush.
> -
>
> Don`t clean the the whole thing just because it has a spot of dirt on
> it. Just clean the spot. This is useful not only for bulky things like
> carpets and coats, but also for floors and shirts.
> -
>
> Develop a chronological universal filing system, not only for your
> office papers, but for your clothes as well. This way the newest things you
> receive will be always on the top and the oldest things always on the
> bottom making things easy to find quickly.
> -
>
> Don`t do things now when you can do them in the last moment. If you do
> them now, it will take longer than if you do them the last minute. And if
> you do them now, you will probably re do them in the last minute anyways,
> so save yourself the trouble.
> -
>
> Don`t make things complicated when you can make them simple.
> -
>
> Adjust your speed according to the quality to quantity ratio you aim
> for. And don`t aim too high.
>
> Below is an example of how you could make your work more enjoyable and more
> like a game if you happened to be a janitor.
>
> -
>
> Call yourself a "certified manager of halls, stairs, parking lot and the
> garden".
> -
>
> Don't play the extra role of policeman.
> -
>
> Don`t socialize with the tenants but do take the opportunity to help the
> tenants carry thing up the stairs whenever you see them struggling. This
> act of kindness reaps great rewards.
> -
>
> Your presence is more important than shiny stairs.
> -
>
> Concentrate on cleaning the few places most used. Wipe clean the front
> door and the mailboxes so that tenants notice you have been around.
> -
>
> Never let the stairs get shiny clean. Allow them every once in a while
> to get a bit dirty, like stairs normally get so that the tenants notice
> that you have cleaned them.
> -
>
> Mop the stairs every week with the biggest flat mop you can buy, and use
> the hottest water you have.
> -
>
> Never use soap and have ready statistics on the dangers of slippery
> stairs.
> -
>
> Allow tenants to leave their shoes outside the hall by their door. You
> have less floor to clean.
> -
>
> Never ask the residents if everything is OK. This show of interest reaps
> great problems for you.
>
> Tips on efficient outside work.
>
> -
>
> It is easier to keep grass short and cut it more often than to let it
> grow and cut it when it is high. When you cut every week, then you do not
> have to worry about collecting and disposing them behind bushes. Hand
> operated lawn mower and clippers are the best as you do not have to worry
> about repairs, batteries, cables, or fuel.
> -
>
> Ask the tenants to let the weeds grow saying that someone wants to use
> them as a herbal tea for a debilitating disease they suffer from.
> -
>
> Shovel snow or rake leaves to the side making piles for children to play
> in and on.
>
> The brain is only 2% of the weight of a body but uses 20% of the energy,
> about 20 Watts worth. 60 minutes of heavy thinking burns about 100
> calories. This is about the same as 15 minutes of moving furniture or 30
> minutes of washing dishes.
>
> By working like your work was a game, you save a great deal of time and
> money. The more time you save the more time you have to spend on your most
> important gift and your greatest talent; thinking.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, October 31, 2012 3:53:30 AM UTC+1, rigsy03 wrote:
>
> > It is also bribery by entitlements for votes-overextended bureaucracy-
> > degradation of work and nobly acquired wealth/property- theft by
> > redistribution- loopholes- uncivil politics- false standards and
> > aspirations- etc. How do you define work?
>
> > On Oct 30, 7:36 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > A waiter in Rome explained where the 100 Euros our meal for two went -
> > > there were three tiers of owners before he talked about tax! Very
> > > little of our money is invested in productive organisation rigsy - as
> > > low as 15%. The rest is in a bloat system to do with speculation on
> > > very ordinary stuff like our houses and property - even this would be
> > > OK if the financiers weren't dipping this aspect of our collective
> > > wallet. My guess is the real cause of current problems is the
> > > detachment of work from wealth and some general problems similar to
> > > the waiter's complaint on the number of rents to pay.
> > > Current thinking has most of the bloat system as a Ponzi scheme based
> > > on inflation replacing new investor money in the traditional scheme or
> > > pyramid. The Japanese went into it long before we did because of land
> > > restrictions. It was the mid-eighties when I was there and people
> > > were buying options on as yet and never to be built golf courses and
> > > mortgages were often three generations long.
>
> > > The big economics term is 'rent' - but this really means 'accumulated
> > > rip-off privilege' (or idlers) as in the waiter's complaint. Some
> > > companies I worked for were so dumb they didn't even do overnight
> > > banking - though one notes the banks were smart enough not to offer it
> > > and take the profit themselves. Economics is like trying to do
> > > biology from Aristotle - stuck in the non-modern. It would be
> > > interesting to take Don's (say) views I mostly agree with apart - our
> > > system is not based on such sound sense - it just pretends to be. We
> > > all lack the facts that would make for really practical discussion.
> > > We could have banking without rich bankers - you could soon manipulate
> > > the spreadsheets I use - the problem is you/we can't get the data that
> > > matters because it's already over-theorised to somewhere south of
> > > Hell. I have never found the work as complex as my role in getting a
> > > bit of a ship built.
>
> > > In the end, my suspicion is economics really is war by other means and
> > > we are too scared to form a system that is honest. We cope with
> > > phlogiston theory instead. Unless I find some new work in the next
> > > couple of months I'll be working with Saudis - 99% of that will be
> > > wasted!
>
> > > On 26 Oct, 14:28, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > What about radical spending/debt? What about the non-reward for
> > > > saving?
>
> > > > Lawns should be outlawed and probably will be when clean water is
> > > > precious and rare. I refuse to make coffee from recycled urine or
> > > > other recycled waste water but...the spirit is willing but the flesh
> > > > is weak.
>
> > > > On Oct 23, 7:13 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > Banking is estimated to contribute between 8 and 14% of UK GDP. It
> > > > > will be smaller in most other countries, but is still held to be
> > > > > vital. I doubt the figures but this doesn't really matter At 14%
> > > > > banking matches manufacturing contribution in the UK.
>
> > > > > In a business account we always want to reduce bank charges to a
> > > > > minimum. Financial services are a cost to be reduced to minimum. I
> > > > > can never see why we have fallen for the idea that moving money
> > around
> > > > > has anything to do with a productive economy. We would hardly
> > > > > organise hard work like clearing farm land by matching the number of
> > > > > us breaking our backs with a similar number of bankers sitting in
> > > > > armchairs.
>
> > > > > I tend to think banking is just a front for organised thieving. We
> > > > > cut out all kinds of management and jobs in manufacturing and it's
> > > > > hard to see how piling bank buildings high with staff makes any
> > > > > sense. In science we generally
>
> ...
>
> read more »
--
I published a video about my opinion of what work is that I would like to share. First you play, then you work and then you think. The virtues of laziness. See YouTube video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgAtlTnWi30
The text of the video is below.
The art of work and play
Work, as seen by the sharp eyes of children, is a game adults play for money. Because all games have rules, to make your work into a game, you have to follow some rules. The first rule of games is not to aim too high if you want to enjoy the game. The second rule is not to take the game too seriously. It's not about winning or losing, but about how you play the game. So if you want to have a good game, you have to play it right.
The higher quality you aim for, the lower quantity you hit. If 80% is too low for you, you can reach for 90% at twice the cost, effort, time, and stress. An additional danger is being perceived as better than you are and being expected to maintain your high level. Prolonged, this can make you or break you. If it breaks you, you get a burnout. If you get too badly burned, you can suffer a nervous breakdown.
Because we live in a very superficial world where appearance is valued more than substance, you can take advantage of this. If you cover cracked or stained floors or walls with pictures, plants or stones, you save yourself time and money from repairing them.
Because the beginning and the end of things are more important than their middle, you can take advantage of this. You don`t have to cook a fancy meal to impress. A few fancy appetizers, wine and a rich creamy dessert is all it takes, saving you time and money.
Practical tips to save time and energy:
Use the carpet as temporary places to sweep things under. Works with indoor as well as outdoor carpets. Instead of chasing leaves in the wind, sweep them under the doormat. They will get pressed into doormats themselves that can be at a later time easily rolled up and discarded as compost behind the closest bush.
Don`t clean the the whole thing just because it has a spot of dirt on it. Just clean the spot. This is useful not only for bulky things like carpets and coats, but also for floors and shirts.
Develop a chronological universal filing system, not only for your office papers, but for your clothes as well. This way the newest things you receive will be always on the top and the oldest things always on the bottom making things easy to find quickly.
Don`t do things now when you can do them in the last moment. If you do them now, it will take longer than if you do them the last minute. And if you do them now, you will probably re do them in the last minute anyways, so save yourself the trouble.
Don`t make things complicated when you can make them simple.
Adjust your speed according to the quality to quantity ratio you aim for. And don`t aim too high.
Below is an example of how you could make your work more enjoyable and more like a game if you happened to be a janitor.
Call yourself a "certified manager of halls, stairs, parking lot and the garden".
Don't play the extra role of policeman.
Don`t socialize with the tenants but do take the opportunity to help the tenants carry thing up the stairs whenever you see them struggling. This act of kindness reaps great rewards.
Your presence is more important than shiny stairs.
Concentrate on cleaning the few places most used. Wipe clean the front door and the mailboxes so that tenants notice you have been around.
Never let the stairs get shiny clean. Allow them every once in a while to get a bit dirty, like stairs normally get so that the tenants notice that you have cleaned them.
Mop the stairs every week with the biggest flat mop you can buy, and use the hottest water you have.
Never use soap and have ready statistics on the dangers of slippery stairs.
Allow tenants to leave their shoes outside the hall by their door. You have less floor to clean.
Never ask the residents if everything is OK. This show of interest reaps great problems for you.
Tips on efficient outside work.
It is easier to keep grass short and cut it more often than to let it grow and cut it when it is high. When you cut every week, then you do not have to worry about collecting and disposing them behind bushes. Hand operated lawn mower and clippers are the best as you do not have to worry about repairs, batteries, cables, or fuel.
Ask the tenants to let the weeds grow saying that someone wants to use them as a herbal tea for a debilitating disease they suffer from.
Shovel snow or rake leaves to the side making piles for children to play in and on.
The brain is only 2% of the weight of a body but uses 20% of the energy, about 20 Watts worth. 60 minutes of heavy thinking burns about 100 calories. This is about the same as 15 minutes of moving furniture or 30 minutes of washing dishes.
By working like your work was a game, you save a great deal of time and money. The more time you save the more time you have to spend on your most important gift and your greatest talent; thinking.
On Wednesday, October 31, 2012 3:53:30 AM UTC+1, rigsy03 wrote:
It is also bribery by entitlements for votes-overextended bureaucracy---
degradation of work and nobly acquired wealth/property- theft by
redistribution- loopholes- uncivil politics- false standards and
aspirations- etc. How do you define work?
On Oct 30, 7:36 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> A waiter in Rome explained where the 100 Euros our meal for two went -
> there were three tiers of owners before he talked about tax! Very
> little of our money is invested in productive organisation rigsy - as
> low as 15%. The rest is in a bloat system to do with speculation on
> very ordinary stuff like our houses and property - even this would be
> OK if the financiers weren't dipping this aspect of our collective
> wallet. My guess is the real cause of current problems is the
> detachment of work from wealth and some general problems similar to
> the waiter's complaint on the number of rents to pay.
> Current thinking has most of the bloat system as a Ponzi scheme based
> on inflation replacing new investor money in the traditional scheme or
> pyramid. The Japanese went into it long before we did because of land
> restrictions. It was the mid-eighties when I was there and people
> were buying options on as yet and never to be built golf courses and
> mortgages were often three generations long.
>
> The big economics term is 'rent' - but this really means 'accumulated
> rip-off privilege' (or idlers) as in the waiter's complaint. Some
> companies I worked for were so dumb they didn't even do overnight
> banking - though one notes the banks were smart enough not to offer it
> and take the profit themselves. Economics is like trying to do
> biology from Aristotle - stuck in the non-modern. It would be
> interesting to take Don's (say) views I mostly agree with apart - our
> system is not based on such sound sense - it just pretends to be. We
> all lack the facts that would make for really practical discussion.
> We could have banking without rich bankers - you could soon manipulate
> the spreadsheets I use - the problem is you/we can't get the data that
> matters because it's already over-theorised to somewhere south of
> Hell. I have never found the work as complex as my role in getting a
> bit of a ship built.
>
> In the end, my suspicion is economics really is war by other means and
> we are too scared to form a system that is honest. We cope with
> phlogiston theory instead. Unless I find some new work in the next
> couple of months I'll be working with Saudis - 99% of that will be
> wasted!
>
> On 26 Oct, 14:28, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > What about radical spending/debt? What about the non-reward for
> > saving?
>
> > Lawns should be outlawed and probably will be when clean water is
> > precious and rare. I refuse to make coffee from recycled urine or
> > other recycled waste water but...the spirit is willing but the flesh
> > is weak.
>
> > On Oct 23, 7:13 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Banking is estimated to contribute between 8 and 14% of UK GDP. It
> > > will be smaller in most other countries, but is still held to be
> > > vital. I doubt the figures but this doesn't really matter At 14%
> > > banking matches manufacturing contribution in the UK.
>
> > > In a business account we always want to reduce bank charges to a
> > > minimum. Financial services are a cost to be reduced to minimum. I
> > > can never see why we have fallen for the idea that moving money around
> > > has anything to do with a productive economy. We would hardly
> > > organise hard work like clearing farm land by matching the number of
> > > us breaking our backs with a similar number of bankers sitting in
> > > armchairs.
>
> > > I tend to think banking is just a front for organised thieving. We
> > > cut out all kinds of management and jobs in manufacturing and it's
> > > hard to see how piling bank buildings high with staff makes any
> > > sense. In science we generally try to reduce resources going into
> > > control to a minimum. We need some radical ideas on how Al Capone is
> > > getting away with all the banking going on. My guess is banking is
> > > really just a tax mechanism we don't get to vote for.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
LOL my problem is Gabby I don't know how to bake..
Allan
Matrix ** th3 beginning light
On Oct 31, 2012 8:39 AM, "gabbydott" <gabbydott@gmail.com> wrote:
-- Allan, just download the update for the milk and honey version and get
over with it! Always the same complaints with you techy guys!
On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 8:02 AM, Allan H <allanh1946@gmail.com> wrote:
> has the supreme court of Rigsy ruled that cookies must be supplied on demand??
> Allan
>
> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 3:39 AM, rigsy03 <rigsy03@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> You are all very sweet to wish me well but I am safely nestled in
>> America's belly. I will join your collective wishes for the east coast
>> as it is ruinous and very sad to track.//Catching up: the fall lawn
>> clean-up and cut backs were the best ever- hope the snow service is
>> the same later on. My daughter has scared me with visions of a sugar
>> plum Christmas she remembers from her childhood forgetting that she
>> has abscounded with most all the decorations- even to the cookie
>> cutters! We'll work it out. Have been getting bedrooms and kitchen in
>> gear for the holidays so there isn't a last minute rush/heart attack.
>> This house is a riot- but that is another topic. A couple invitations-
>> will go to one- a baby shower. Exit the momastery! And yes, Gabby, was
>> thinking of the warm sun during these cloudy days and cold nights. Saw
>> myself sitting in the desert- very strange. Love to all- be safe.
>>
>> On Oct 30, 7:53 pm, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Yes, hope all is well for you rigsy. In Detroit we have Sandy's wind and a
>>> bit of rain and sleet, but nothing like NYC. thinking of you with love.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, October 30, 2012 5:20:35 PM UTC-4, Allan Heretic wrote:
>>>
>>> > sounds like you are really going to be needing your snow guy Rigsy,,
>>> > heard WV had over a meter of snow fall that must be a bitch.
>>> > Allan
>>>
>>> > On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 8:56 PM, gabbydott <gabb...@gmail.com<javascript:>>
>>> > wrote:
>>> > > You see, Neil, that's exactly why I thought we have Rigsy write the
>>> > > abstract and make her come out of the kitchen after her snow guy had
>>> > > done his job. You have spoiled it all now!
>>>
>>> > > On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 11:25 AM, archytas <nwt...@gmail.com<javascript:>>
>>> > wrote:
>>> > >> I've just become a paradigm case of Bill's "bored traveller" - long
>>> > >> weekend with an American friend in Rome looking at art entailing the
>>> > >> Vatican (which didn't spontaneously combust) - Bernini etc. There was
>>> > >> a Hombeck on candle-light which will stick forever. I got the
>>> > >> impression Bernini could do something in static stone that would give
>>> > >> the impression of a Jimmy Johnstone dribble (he was the best ever at
>>> > >> this spectacle, if not the most effective player in modern soccer
>>> > >> terms). Couldn't get a coffee in the city that never sleeps at 3 a.m.
>>> > >> and ended-up in a Mcdonalds. The place is a dreadful tourist rip-off
>>> > >> and a week would have bankrupted us. Flight home was delayed by an
>>> > >> outbreak of Italian indolence and refusal to drive the bus to the
>>> > >> plane. Airport full of disgruntled Americans delayed by Sandy.
>>> > >> Greece and Rome descend from slave economies and attitudes that work
>>> > >> scars the soul.
>>> > >> There was so much to see and it was so pleasant to walk I came home
>>> > >> hobbling on a blister.
>>>
>>> > >> Much biology is based on the economics of energy - we always seem to
>>> > >> want explanation in terms of why an organism would expend the energy
>>> > >> required to maintain an organ and so on. Our brains and even memory
>>> > >> need justification in energy terms. Much of my own interest in the
>>> > >> subject concerns desire to overcome its predestination - which these
>>> > >> days would be talked about through the notion of co-evolution and its
>>> > >> 'arms races'. My own guess for a long time has been we need to
>>> > >> organise work differently - I favour a federal Europe (World) of a
>>> > >> free table with work as a shared obligation - but one always finds
>>> > >> such opinion has been held before - one example here would be the
>>> > >> Strasser brothers who organised the Nazis when Hitler came out of
>>> > >> jail. Politically I tend to think we are stuck in the hands of a
>>> > >> rentier class much as in the inter-war years.
>>>
>>> > >> I think some UFO-dreaming could help us understand this and even Star
>>> > >> Trek touches the fringes. We might, very un-art, start by wondering
>>> > >> who cleans the toilets on the Enterprise.
>>>
>>> > >> On 29 Oct, 19:02, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > >>> The Golden Way out of deference? Yes, that's probably the meaning
>>> > >>> Molly is trying to convey. Thanks, Allan.
>>>
>>> > >>> On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 5:02 PM, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com>
>>> > wrote:
>>> > >>> > Gabby one of the major deference between me and christianity is I
>>> > see
>>> > >>> > God as what makes up my being,, I do not see God as being else
>>> > where.
>>> > >>> > I am expected to live up to my beliefs not making excuses to justify
>>> > >>> > violating those rules.
>>> > >>> > Allan
>>>
>>> > >>> > On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 1:24 PM, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com>
>>> > wrote:
>>> > >>> >> Oh, hi Molly! Yes, it's true, I dared to read the bible on the same
>>> > >>> >> level as fairy tales. My Protestant nature, I guess. Going out,
>>> > >>> >> looking out, speaking out is part of that tradition too. What is it
>>> > in
>>> > >>> >> your life that makes you being different?
>>>
>>> > >>> >> On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 1:06 PM, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com>
>>> > wrote:
>>> > >>> >>> Looking for God outside oneself can lead to magical gang gods at a
>>> > level
>>> > >>> >>> where only the fit and corrupt survive. Many fairy tales are
>>> > imbued with
>>> > >>> >>> mystical thinking, including the bible.
>>>
>>> > >>> >>> On Monday, October 29, 2012 5:20:17 AM UTC-4, gabbydott wrote:
>>>
>>> > >>> >>>> I don't know why these far-away and up-above gods and godesses
>>> > never
>>> > >>> >>>> really made it into my heart. Maybe the down-to-earth fairy tales
>>> > >>> >>>> resembled my surroundings much more. It gives me the creeps when
>>> > >>> >>>> little street gangstas are referring to Nemesis and believe they
>>> > have
>>> > >>> >>>> got the key to the kingdom now.
>>>
>>> > >>> >>>> On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 4:35 AM, rigsy03 <rig...@yahoo.com>
>>> > wrote:
>>> > >>> >>>> > I pray to a God everyday but am not sure which one. He is male
>>> > and
>>> > >>> >>>> > seems helpful. Today he bolstered my strength rearranging some
>>> > >>> >>>> > furniture then rebolstered me moving stuff back as it was.
>>> > However, I
>>> > >>> >>>> > cooked a hearty meal of steak, potatoes and asparagus for
>>> > insurance.//
>>> > >>> >>>> > I think the Greek and Roman gods and goddesses represent human
>>> > nature
>>> > >>> >>>> > and traits- really provide some valuable insights for mere
>>> > mortals.
>>>
>>> > >>> >>>> > On Oct 28, 12:45 pm, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > >>> >>>> >> Ah Lee, by that time you would have forgotten where you were
>>> > coming
>>> > >>> >>>> >> from!
>>>
>>> > >>> >>>> >> I like monotheism, because it supports my view of myself as an
>>> > >>> >>>> >> individual. And it allows me to act upon it as such. I am
>>> > aware that I
>>> > >>> >>>> >> am a social being though. Polytheism would be able to account
>>> > for
>>> > >>> >>>> >> that, but would probably only confuse me.
>>>
>>> > >>> >>>> >> On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 6:20 PM, Lee Douglas <
>>> > leerevdoug...@gmail.com>
>>> > >>> >>>> >> wrote:
>>> > >>> >>>> >> > Well that is true Rigsy, and perhaps your prediction is also
>>> > true.
>>> > >>> >>>> >> > However
>>> > >>> >>>> >> > religious faith is 'unreasonable' belief. As it is my
>>> > stance that we
>>> > >>> >>>> >> > all
>>> > >>> >>>> >> > hold to some of these along the way, then perhaps it is a
>>> > wholly
>>> > >>> >>>> >> > human/sentient being trait and we'll not be rid of it, only
>>> > time will
>>> > >>> >>>> >> > tell.
>>> > >>> >>>> >> > Just one of the reasons I want to reach at least 400 years
>>> > old.
>>>
>>> > >>> >>>> >> > On Sunday, October 28, 2012 12:52:50 PM UTC, rigsy03 wrote:
>>>
>>> > >>> >>>> >> >> Really? What about the Italian scientists who face prison
>>> > time for
>>> > >>> >>>> >> >> failing to predict the severity of an earthquake? What
>>> > harmony under
>>> > >>> >>>> >> >> the mantle of monotheism? Science and technology will make
>>> > god(s)
>>> > >>> >>>> >> >> obsolete and society can still be managed through various
>>> > value
>>> > >>> >>>> >> >> systems based on new realities and methods of control.
>>> > Presently, we
>>> > >>> >>>> >> >> are trying to integrate two oppositional positions which
>>> > accounts
>>> > >>> >>>> >> >> for
>>> > >>> >>>> >> >> a good amount of absurdity and disappointment. As extinct
>>> > creatures
>>> > >>> >>>> >> >> might have warned us, sentimentality is deadly.
>>>
>>> > >>> >>>> >> >> On Oct 28, 2:12 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > >>> >>>> >> >> > I really do not see much beyond monotheism atheism holds
>>> > little
>>> > >>> >>>> >> >> > but
>>> > >>> >>>> >> >> > wishful madness, and as for polytheism the universes
>>> > would be
>>> > >>> >>>> >> >> > totally
>>> > >>> >>>> >> >> > different.. Just doesn't work.. You are right arrogance
>>> > is a
>>> > >>> >>>> >> >> > tremendous problem which I seriously doubt man will over
>>> > come..
>>> > >>> >>>> >> >> > those
>>> > >>> >>>> >> >> > that are arrogant have little reason to change.. It is
>>> > the
>>> > >>> >>>> >> >> > monotheism
>>> > >>> >>>> >> >> > that keeps some what harmony,, the problems I see come
>>> > from man
>>> > >>> >>>> >> >> > changing the laws of God that have been handed down
>>> > through the
>>> > >>> >>>> >> >> > generations .. It seems these changes are really
>>> > designed to
>>> > >>> >>>> >> >> > benefit
>>> > >>> >>>> >> >> > them and their goals.
>>>
>>> > >>> >>>> >> >> > without a singular God there would be no harmony even
>>> > with in
>>> > >>> >>>> >> >> > nature
>>> > >>> >>>> >> >> > and the predictability of science would disappear.
>>> > >>> >>>> >> >> > Allan
>>>
>>> > >>> >>>> >> >> > On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 4:12 AM, James <
>>> > ashkas...@gmail.com>
>>> > >>> >>>> >> >> > wrote:
>>> > >>> >>>> >> >> > > I agree with S. W. Hawking where this is unknown
>>> > territory, we
>>> > >>> >>>> >> >> > > have a
>>> > >>> >>>> >> >> > > tendency to being destructive and careless. We must
>>> > evolve if we
>>> > >>> >>>> >> >> > > wish
>>> > >>> >>>> >> >> > > to
>>> > >>> >>>> >> >> > > survive, boldly while trying to work out that Achilles
>>> > heel
>>> > >>> >>>> >> >> > > (arrogance).
>>>
>>> > >>> >>>> >> >> > > Allan I was thinking similarly in part, I am not so
>>> > sure
>>> > >>> >>>> >> >> > > monotheism is
>>> > >>> >>>> >> >> > > for
>>> > >>> >>>> >> >> > > everyone though. Where people can devise stories to fit
>>> > a niche
>>> > >>> >>>> >> >> > > in
>>> > >>> >>>> >> >> > > nature,
>>> > >>> >>>> >> >> > > then further reconcile from that I think there is much
>>> > less to
>>> > >>> >>>> >> >> > > say on
>>> > >>> >>>> >> >> > > God
>>> > >>> >>>> >> >> > > than people might, it may even be sacrilege to do so.
>>> > In the
>>> > >>> >>>> >> >> > > sense of
>>> > >>> >>>> >> >> > > attempting authority on the nameless, a belligerent act
>>> > so to
>>> > >>> >>>> >> >> > > speak.
>>> > >>> >>>> >> >> > > Agrarian civilization, centralization of authority, and
>>> > cultural
>>> > >>> >>>> >> >> > > homogeneity
>>> > >>> >>>> >> >> > > (dare add monotheism) have
>>>
>>> ...
>>>
>>> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>>>
>>> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> (
> )
> |_D Allan
>
> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>
>
> I am a Natural Airgunner -
>
> Full of Hot Air & Ready To Expel It Quickly.
>
> --
>
>
>
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