On Oct 23, 4:03 pm, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I haven't decided yet between wanting to understand and saving the world
> from all the idiots around me.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 8:12 PM, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > what is it you want Gabby?
> > Allan
>
> > On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 4:50 PM, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> Dawn. The Golden Dawn. In between light and darkness there is The Golden
> >> Dawn. And the question is: Who is going to own our future generations.
> >> The Scandinavians have already bought a lot of our houses ...
>
> >> On Sat, Oct 22, 2011 at 5:17 PM, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>> when a person gets looking at trust money it gets very scary when you
> >>> look at them from the long term.. example in dollars because the symbol is
> >>> on my computer
>
> >>> $1,000.oo 3% interest added annually
> >>> for
> >>> 50 years value will be $ 4,383.91
> >>> 100 years value will be $ 19.2818. 63
> >>> Now what gets scary is this. leave the same $1,000.oo in for;;
> >>> ready
> >>> 500 years. value will be $ 2,621,877,234.--
>
> >>> Now that is some serious money even I can come up with that thousand in
> >>> cash..
>
> >>> Indecently that is why there are laws against perpetual trusts... (",)
>
> >>> to prevent major universities from extreme wealth..
>
> >>> but that would not keep a ?Secret? society from doing it.... ah the
> >>> secret society of "The Golden Calf."
> >>> It is shear madness.. but easily do able when you look in the long term..
> >>> now just look at adding several zeros to the original 1,000 and see what
> >>> happens..
> >>> which countries do we want our future generations to Own??
> >>> Allan
>
> >>> On Sat, Oct 22, 2011 at 3:34 PM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>> I agree most of that Allan. We could have banks small enough to
> >>>> compete for our business with very little regulation. On the current
> >>>> banks - it's doubtful many are really worth anything.
>
> >>>> On Oct 22, 1:45 pm, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> > Back to what I was saying,, I see a society today including bankerism
> >>>> that
> >>>> > is based an economy based off debt.. As I see it a trust that could
> >>>> be set
> >>>> > up that (actually split as to not draw attention) it could be used to
> >>>> help
> >>>> > people, I am thinking about a small economy strictly toursit based
> >>>> where
> >>>> > it could be used to help people doing things like develop wind
> >>>> generators
> >>>> > then selling the power to pay for themselves and at the same time
> >>>> grow the
> >>>> > fund.. other things like building vertical green houses for
> >>>> supplying
> >>>> > food to make sure every one ate..
>
> >>>> > I do not think charity is a way to go,, but the process of growing
> >>>> a
> >>>> > business designed to help people is not to bad.. it can get into
> >>>> things
> >>>> > like the skycat and transporting goods across oceans to pay for
> >>>> themselves
> >>>> > and grow the trust,, when it came to times like the big earth quakes
> >>>> and
> >>>> > natural disasters,, where the could be actually flown into
> >>>> > the disaster areas to supply aid directly .. helping to keep it out
> >>>> of
> >>>> > the corruption cycle.
>
> >>>> > As the trust fund{s} grew they could actually buy out the greed banks
> >>>> stock
> >>>> > taking them over.. ending the cycle that way..
>
> >>>> > Transferring the economy from a debt economy to a stable debt free
> >>>> > economy.. you will be well on your way to ending Bankerism.. It can
> >>>> be
> >>>> > done simple because they are based on debt,, remember a share
> >>>> actually sez
> >>>> > they owe you money..
>
> >>>> > Allan
>
> >>>> > On Sat, Oct 22, 2011 at 10:24 AM, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>> > > Thank you for the ideas Neil,, I for one actually believe
> >>>> ?bankerism? can
> >>>> > > be controlled but not necessarily with regulations.. It is well
> >>>> known and I
> >>>> > > think it was discussed here on the financial power of the trust fund
> >>>> > > especially non-expiring ones,, to the point that they are
> >>>> regulated by
> >>>> > > the government requiring them to spend the interest.. I have to run
> >>>> I
> >>>> > > will get back to this when I return..
> >>>> > > Allan
>
> >>>> > > On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 10:37 PM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com>
> >>>> wrote:
>
> >>>> > >> My guess is that modern rationality starts with Descartes - though
> >>>> he
> >>>> > >> doesn't provide a template, just some ground we can get into the
> >>>> > >> issues through. The great warnings to us on 'solutions' is real
> >>>> > >> history and the failure of Germany as the most cultured and
> >>>> scientific
> >>>> > >> nation culminating in "Hitler" - the lesson being so-called
> >>>> triumphs
> >>>> > >> in rationality, science and culture are dreadful fantasies. I
> >>>> would
> >>>> > >> hope in this that German friends would not see any blaming in this
> >>>> -
> >>>> > >> the culpability is wider-set in imperialism and our still stupid
> >>>> > >> notions of leadership. In intellectual terms we are supposedly in
> >>>> > >> postmoderism (really read that and weep in a different way from
> >>>> > >> Gabby's sonnet). The crisis is one of legitimation and the need
> >>>> for
> >>>> > >> an incredulous stance towards grand narratives like religion and
> >>>> the
> >>>> > >> 'wealth creation' espoused in the status quo of oligarchy (rather
> >>>> than
> >>>> > >> competitive capitalism).
>
> >>>> > >> I'd say the big issue is dishonesty and the ease with which we
> >>>> swallow
> >>>> > >> chronic lies whole as the facts stand up against them. The idiocy
> >>>> is
> >>>> > >> in demanding paragons of virtue in politics. Honesty is not so
> >>>> easily
> >>>> > >> produced. As a population we remain crudely ignorant and
> >>>> politicians
> >>>> > >> can rely on this. I can prove over and again that voters don't
> >>>> know
> >>>> > >> what they vote for - the result being my regard as a smartarse,
> >>>> > >> "commie" or whatever suits. We get bogged down by popular opinion
> >>>> > >> (Idols in Bacon) and inane rationalist fantasies as to whether god
> >>>> > >> exists or not to which there is only 'answer' in sentient (Hume).
> >>>> We
> >>>> > >> rightly point to failures in communism whilst failing to spot we
> >>>> have
> >>>> > >> already been carried away in the anti-communism (even
> >>>> anti-democratic
> >>>> > >> management - see the use of the UnAmerican stuff against quite mild
> >>>> > >> adherents of such) that drives our resources into the hands of a
> >>>> tiny
> >>>> > >> few, leaving even 1 in 5 Americans poor etc. and wars all over -let
> >>>> > >> alone poverty through massive over-breeding and climate change.
>
> >>>> > >> The answer is a massive change in our ways, including
> >>>> world-government
> >>>> > >> - but the rub here is this can't involve the kind of people doing
> >>>> > >> politics at the whim of banksterism and it does mean not allowing
> >>>> > >> 'riches' as currently conceived, which many think 'fair' owing to
> >>>> > >> propaganda. The statement on population ignorance itself needs
> >>>> review
> >>>> > >> as it can't itself be just another bid for leadership and power.
> >>>> On
> >>>> > >> the odd occasion I do chemistry for schoolkids I do experiments
> >>>> that
> >>>> > >> go bang, flash light and then a tame one in which heating Lead
> >>>> > >> Carbonate turns it yellow before it melts. The kids rarely
> >>>> understand
> >>>> > >> (which isn't the point). Teaching economics is much the same in
> >>>> > >> result - most end up with no clue and would need to be in intensive
> >>>> > >> educational care to get a grok. I am much more confident in my
> >>>> > >> scientific prognostications than on those of how we should live and
> >>>> a
> >>>> > >> viable economics. Yet the world of science is much less
> >>>> authoritarian
> >>>> > >> than that of public opinion, despite the techniques being much more
> >>>> > >> reliable. If you don't want to listen properly on how to make,say,
> >>>> > >> gunpowder - then you're free to blow your hands off. Yet how do I
> >>>> > >> tell anyone not to have children in excess? Recruit Indira Gandhi?
> >>>> > >> How do we get work done - sit around drinking tea voting?
>
> >>>> > >> The basic idea is often to get everyone up to western standards -
> >>>> yet
> >>>> > >> what 'standard' do we offer? Planet burning firsts? A model that
> >>>> has
> >>>> > >> always favoured a few rich with a minor blip after WW2 and is as
> >>>> debt-
> >>>> > >> ridden as ancient Mesopotamia? A big part of the answer is the
> >>>> > >> setting up of complex regulation that prevents undue power
> >>>> accretion.
> >>>> > >> The human tendency in this is towards bureaucracy and that runs
> >>>> into n
> >>>> > >> iron cage (Weber). I believe computing offers new avenues -but
> >>>> we'd
> >>>> > >> have to guard against this being perverted in the usual ways. The
> >>>> key
> >>>> > >> roadblock is world peace and not believing we could have it and the
> >>>> > >> daft assumption just laying down our 'guns' would produce it.
>
> >>>> > >> There's a massive literature that could help - the problem being
> >>>> few
> >>>> > >> read and would even watch if our media could summarise it. Should I
> >>>> > >> issue a bibliography? This doesn't even work at university.
>
> >>>> > >> The first solution is getting resources into individual and
> >>>> collective
> >>>> > >> control with banking as a utility (rather than designed to steal
> >>>> them
> >>>> > >> as happens now even with micro-credit). This itself should produce
> >>>> > >> enough argument to fill several books - but watch this space. The
> >>>> > >> move is broadly capitalist but anti-oligarchy pro-democracy in the
> >>>> > >> sense of (Popper's) control of those allocated 'power'. Questions
> >>>> > >> immediately arise as to what is not allowable - like a bunch of
> >>>> > >> Taliban mistreating women and trying to build an H-bomb or burning
> >>>> > >> coal for the hell of it.
>
> >>>> > >> To see this as other than 'castle-in-the-air' one needs
>
> ...
>
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Funny! I worry about the violent types.
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