[Mind's Eye] Re: Anger and retribution

There are many ways to "skin a cat".

On Aug 19, 3:47 am, Lee Douglas <leerevdoug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey Gabs,
>
> I have not yet got around to watching that, yeah yeah I know.  But
> again an eye for an eye punishment is not what I would advocate.  I
> see that kind of thought as more akin to revenge than punishment.
>
> On Aug 18, 6:20 pm, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > How about the an-eye-for-an-eye comparison as the "pure punishment"? A
> > Clockwork Orange comes to mind .. the eye scene.. as far as I remember it
> > didn't work then. Do you know what I mean?...
>
> > read more »
>
> > On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 3:08 PM, Lee Douglas <leerevdoug...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> > > Hah are you trying to make a comparision with my stance and the
> > > Arabian crime and punishment system?
>
> > > It's a false comparision, I have not called for theives to have their
> > > hands cut off.
>
> > > On Aug 18, 1:47 pm, rigsy03 <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Prisons are an industry over here- like nursing homes. Pure punishment
> > > > exisits in Arabia, doesn't it?
>
> > > > Is war/terrorism also a punishment?
>
> > > > Prisons place wrong-doers out of sight, out  of mind so commerce and
> > > > entertainment are not interrupted.
>
> > > > Ask the super rich about how much they need, Lee, for they are the
> > > > force that drives society. The rioters were clear- they were showing
> > > > the rich that they also had a right to luxury goods. They are
> > > > surrounded with images and public figures that flaunt possessions and
> > > > wealth so you have to understand why they want a piece of the action/
> > > > pie Plus a nation's wars/colonizations are a form of greed, aren't
> > > > they?
>
> > > > On Aug 18, 7:28 am, Lee Douglas <leerevdoug...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > Naaaa prisons in this country are still oppeating under the Victorian
> > > > > principle of rehabilitation.  I think the majority of us would rather
> > > > > see them setup as pure punishment for crimes commited, I am one of
> > > > > these.
>
> > > > > I for one do not feel smugness, but I do think wrong doing should be
> > > > > punished.  I mean we punish our children, why not then punish our
> > > > > adults?
>
> > > > > Yes debt.  But the thing with this debt is it has been with us for a
> > > > > looong time now, why the sudden rush to pay it back?  Given the global
> > > > > fiscal situation I would rather see some loving feelings going on by
> > > > > those who we owe.  Take down the intrest rate, give us longer or
> > > > > perhaps similar to the drive a while back for Africa, scrap the dept,
> > > > > yeah!
>
> > > > > Greed, man it is the ruining of this world.  How much does one person
> > > > > need?
>
> > > > > On Aug 18, 12:59 pm, rigsy03 <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > What are prisons but holding pens so society feels smug about its
> > > > > > culture?
>
> > > > > > There are probably enough hospitals and schools- what's missing is
> > > > > > methods, cost controls, etc.
>
> > > > > > Britain and the USA are broke/in debt. China is over-extended. Etc.
>
> > > > > > The best way out of debt is not to spend money you don't have and pay
> > > > > > off debts as soon as possible.
>
> > > > > > On Aug 18, 6:37 am, Lee Douglas <leerevdoug...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > It does seem ludicrus to me that with an ever expanding population
> > > > > > > that next to nowt has been done to expand our infrastructure.  We
> > > need
> > > > > > > to be building more prisions, more hospitals, more shcools, more
> > > > > > > social houseing.  I mean that is common sense innit?
>
> > > > > > > It also occours to me that amongst the very best ways out of
> > > recision
> > > > > > > is building.
>
> > > > > > > On Aug 18, 12:31 pm, rigsy03 <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > You will also wind up paying higher taxes for those that are sent
> > > to
> > > > > > > > prison according to a lawyer on BBC radio last night. I think he
> > > said
> > > > > > > > prisons are already burdened with 86,000 souls (but the USA beats
> > > that
> > > > > > > > figure by miles). It sounds like the courts are swamped and
> > > handing
> > > > > > > > down stiff sentences so the country can repair its moral
> > > core/civil
> > > > > > > > behavior. Besides, the Olympics are coming up and after all that
> > > money
> > > > > > > > is invested, one would not want to frighten away the tourists-
> > > like
> > > > > > > > they have in the Middle East.
>
> > > > > > > > On Aug 17, 7:34 pm, rigsy03 <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > Don't worry, archy. You will be paying higher insurance
> > > premiums to
> > > > > > > > > cover the losses anyway. Trickle down justice.
>
> > > > > > > > > On Aug 17, 7:18 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > I think Orn is right.  Rationalists are often impossible
> > > fantasists
> > > > > > > > > > leading highly disturbed lives.  But if emotions are an ever
> > > present
> > > > > > > > > > as I'd agree, one can deny them to some degree if you can
> > > catch
> > > > > > > > > > yourself (and as importantly others) in them when moral
> > > judgement runs
> > > > > > > > > > afoot.
> > > > > > > > > > That we are brainless in this area as a general population is
> > > obvious
> > > > > > > > > > from reaction to the UK 'riots' and demands for heavy
> > > punishments (our
> > > > > > > > > > courts are berserk at the moment) for these people but can't
> > > even see
> > > > > > > > > > that we are being looted by the rich and are not even
> > > investigating
> > > > > > > > > > them.
> > > > > > > > > > I'm an advocate of modern National Service that would involve
> > > > > > > > > > disciplined work but not necessarily armed service - but we
> > > can't pay
> > > > > > > > > > for it because the rich have looted the money and have
> > > > > > > > > > disproportionate influence on government through their rotten
> > > > > > > > > > accumulations.
> > > > > > > > > > We should be some time to such reactions before deciding, but
> > > if one
> > > > > > > > > > gives power such time it usually steal the moment and the
> > > decision for
> > > > > > > > > > itself.
>
> > > > > > > > > > On Aug 17, 11:45 am, Lee Douglas <leerevdoug...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > Ohh Rigys, i don't doubt for a second that thoese
> > > effecthave every
> > > > > > > > > > > right to be angry, I question wether or not morality is
> > > best served
> > > > > > > > > > > with any emotional attachment.  I have used anger as an
> > > example, but
> > > > > > > > > > > really I mean all emotions.
>
> > > > > > > > > > > A freind of mine posted on facebook something along the
> > > lines of bring
> > > > > > > > > > > back national servic, as a punishment for the looters. This
> > > was said
> > > > > > > > > > > in anger and when it comes down to it, is it a good idea to
> > > teach
> > > > > > > > > > > thugs how to kill?
>
> > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 16, 11:45 pm, rigsy03 <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > There must be laws on the books to cover riots, looting,
> > > damage to
> > > > > > > > > > > > property. This isn't the first era of a poor economy for
> > > Britain. Has
> > > > > > > > > > > > networking changed the formulas?
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > Another factor is immigration and clash of cultures and
> > > religions.
> > > > > > > > > > > > What if once cheap labor is no longer needed? It seems to
> > > me- though I
> > > > > > > > > > > > may be wrong- that immigrants rarely return to their
> > > original homeland
> > > > > > > > > > > > and bring their new skills and education forward in third
> > > world
> > > > > > > > > > > > countries. And social programs may quash desires to roll
> > > up their
> > > > > > > > > > > > sleeves once again in their homeland.
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > I learned this weekend from a discussion that one cannot
> > > fire upon a
> > > > > > > > > > > > thief- it's only permitted when one's life is in
> > > jeopardy. That seems
> > > > > > > > > > > > a thin line- wait till the bloke attempts to kill you!
> > > Our laws have
> > > > > > > > > > > > probably changed a great deal- I doubt cattle rustlers
> > > were treated so
> > > > > > > > > > > > mercifully.
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > As to anger, I think shop owners and home dwellers and
> > > townsmen had/
> > > > > > > > > > > > have every right to be blistering mad at the looters and
> > > rioters.
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > I made a long list of non-lethal protective measures.
> > > Baseball bats
> > > > > > > > > > > > were not on the list as they can crack a skull and kill
> > > someone.
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 16, 6:09 am, Lee Douglas <leerevdoug...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Paradox, yes agreat frind of mine tells me the same
> > > sorta thing, that
> > > > > > > > > > > > > morality without emotion is somehow lacking.  It is
> > > partly due to his
> > > > > > > > > > > > > words and my respect for him that I have started this
> > > thread.
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > However as Rigsy points out to evict a looter from his
> > > council home
> > > > > > > > > > > > > for his looting does not adress any problems, nor does
> > > it serve as
> > > > > > > > > > > > > adiquate punishment, and would I think only make things
> > > worse.
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > This course of actions is a fine example of
> > > thinking/talking about
> > > > > > > > > > > > > morality whilst angry, and is to my mind no good at
> > > all.
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I maintian that morality is best sreved without
> > > emotions attached, can
> > > > > > > > > > > > > you show my why I am wrong?
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 14, 5:31 pm, paradox <eadohe...@hotmail.com>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deep question, Lee; not an easy one. One who suffers
> > > injury must have
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the right of redress, be that restitution or
> > > retribution, or else we
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > live in Hobbes's state of nature. The question of
> > > balance and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > proportionality is the proper remit of the law
>
> ...
>
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