against others moral values that mine is good and I do try my upmost
to strongly live by it. I guess in the end we can all make a value
judgement upon the values of others so be my guess, give me your
measurement of my values.
As to autherity, we are all free to act in any manor we wish, both to
the good and ill of our sleves and others, so I guess then we are all
free to make up our onw minds. We are our selves the authoritarian
status to make value judgments of our selves and others. But really
we can see that we are all differant, or there would be one religion
or lack of, and one politics and one idea.
On Sep 19, 10:30 am, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Lee, how do you know that the problem is not that you yourself are trapped
> in your own self fulfilling hypothesis? Who in your worldview is given
> the authoritarian status to see us humans as all different? This would then
> explain your reality but not mine, for example. In my reality I am against
> my fellow humans processing death penalty, but I accept God doing this
> job.
>
> On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 10:37 AM, Lee Douglas <leerevdoug...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>
>
> > Heh James it is not hard to imagine what you see as unreasonable to be
> > the reality of the situation. As I said in my last post, let us look
> > at how Communisim has worked or not for us over the last 70 years or
> > so.
>
> > The problem is that we are all differant, what may seem sensable to
> > some will not seem so to others.
>
> > What is you stance on the dealth penalty, as a view to an example of
> > how differantly we all think?
>
> > On Sep 16, 11:37 pm, James Lynch <ashkas...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Well the more I think about this the less it sounds reasonable to
> > > assume that given the viable choice and reason to believe it wasn't a
> > > catch 22 that anyone capable of doing anything would choose a life of
> > > scraps over anything productive. In that case chronic welfare should
> > > come hitched with therapy, mandatory, to identify those who could
> > > really use some more psychological attention and keep people from
> > > falling between the cracks. Some may, and that is one's right, but a
> > > goal of societal health should be to facilitate productive lives my
> > > any means possible. The costs to society are too great otherwise and
> > > there is a huge amount of work to be done.
>
> > > On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 11:06 AM, Lee Douglas <leerevdoug...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > I do not belive all people would work for these things make sacrifices
> > > > and be likely to be happy at all.
>
> > > > We can see that so far Communism has not really worked.
>
> > > > I agree that we must as a society look after those less abelt o look
> > > > after themselves, but we need to be very carefull indeed that we do
> > > > not create a sociaty of spongers.
>
> > > > On Sep 16, 3:39 pm, James Lynch <ashkas...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> I believe in cradle to the grave social securities, and that is
> > > >> something that should be on offer. People will work for these things,
> > > >> make sacrifices, and likely be happy about it if they have a sense of
> > > >> it helping to strengthen society. I think many people would work
> > > >> harder and even be willing to work smarter if there were tangible
> > > >> results, if that work pays into the social securities and societal
> > > >> infrastructure and benefits the individual at the same time- what more
> > > >> could one ask for? Of course one could ask for more, and that is why I
> > > >> think we should have a dual economy- we obviously cannot trust the
> > > >> politicians, lobbyists, and corporate interests to factor human beings
> > > >> and the well being of society into their bottom line we need something
> > > >> to compensate for this. We need a progressive social plan that
> > > >> tenaciously pursues social stability, security, sustainability, and
> > > >> excellence from the bottom to the top and across the board for near
> > > >> and long term objectives. It should be an option.
>
> > > >> I am playing out hundreds of scenarios trying to solve the hard
> > > >> questions like the one you have raised Rigsy and there is no easy way
> > > >> out. I'm not omniscient either, actually battling with mental tumult
> > > >> and exhaustion in the process. It brings up the inconvenient truths
> > > >> such as who makes the decisions, who benefits and who is at a loss- it
> > > >> boils down to representation- should it? Even by pursuing a principled
> > > >> hierarchial weighting system to benefit the maximum number to the
> > > >> maximum degree over a temporal timeline some will be disadvantaged
> > > >> (lest we throw everything we have at each person in line)- it is
> > > >> obvious any workable system would account for need and availability,
> > > >> after identifying those ends part of the second task would be
> > > >> identifying where the current system lies in those terms and creating
> > > >> a context shift. It may turn out that everyone could live a longer and
> > > >> more fulfilling life consuming half of the current resources (or less)
> > > >> but it will take some intelligence to identify how to make it a
> > > >> reality and the systems required to secure this future and eliminate
> > > >> the implicit wastes that siphon off our collective human potential.
> > > >> Though everything isn't clear to me, I've developed a strong belief
> > > >> that we can achieve these ends and that we must if we wish to survive
> > > >> the challenges in our indefinite future.
>
> > > >> On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 6:51 AM, rigsy03 <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> > So- are you for "death panels"? Some day you will wake up and not be
> > > >> > so "new" anymore.
>
> > > >> > On Sep 16, 1:40 am, James Lynch <ashkas...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> >> My mother in law went to school with Mike, said he was a jerk or
> > > >> >> something like that. I thought it was a riot the way he showed our
> > > >> >> hometown, a highschooler then.
>
> > > >> >> Elsewhere, Archytas mentions this being the only game in town and I
> > > >> >> wonder facing the situational characterizations Moore lists what
> > > >> >> options does one have? I mean we either play their game or lose,
> > > >> >> period. Sure regions can begin to resist by conserving resources
> > > >> >> through internal trade and services but in the end everybody has to
> > > >> >> pay the tax man, tuition, fuel, etc. It makes me think we are all
> > > >> >> under the spell of a mass narcotic. I would like to see the rise of
> > a
> > > >> >> dual economy come out of this disaster, one independent (the
> > current
> > > >> >> model) and one social (remove gov't assistance from the old and
> > apply
> > > >> >> to the new). The purpose of the social will be to fuel the
> > improvement
> > > >> >> of society as a whole through massive public works projects like
> > > >> >> education, mentorship, health and care of those in need, removal of
> > > >> >> poverty and mitigation of its effects through quality
> > individualized
> > > >> >> social reeducation programs beginning with relocation, therapeutic
> > > >> >> exercise (learning/gaining skills) and exposure to positive
> > > >> >> reinforcement. Sounds scary?
>
> > > >> >> On Sat, Aug 27, 2011 at 10:19 AM, ornamentalmind
>
> > > >> >> <ornsmindseyes...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > >> >> > Yes rigsy, the short lived US middle class is all but gone...and
> > it is
> > > >> >> > no accident.
>
> > > >> >> >http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/08/06
>
> > > >> >> > Hyperbole, perhaps. Directly applicable?... absolutely!
>
> > > >> >> > On Aug 27, 6:29 am, rigsy03 <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> >> >> The middle class is shrinking- the class that drives an economy.
>
> > > >> >> >> Greece is not a good example. Libya is a wealthy country- sweet
> > crude,
> > > >> >> >> investments around the world=cash. Now the clean up crew will
> > clean up
> > > >> >> >> with new oil contracts and rebuilding a ruined infrastructure
> > all in
> > > >> >> >> the name of liberty and freedom as per the examples of Iraq and
> > > >> >> >> Afghanistan plus we have "miles"/countries to go, as Frost put
> > it.
>
> > > >> >> >> On Aug 27, 2:12 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > >> >> >> > Banks are lying about money laundering - seehttp://
> >www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/03/us-bank-mexico-drug-gangs
> > > >> >> >> > - as an example. They are also hiding losses illegally
> > through
> > > >> >> >> > massive false accounting that has been 'made legal'. The
> > basic scam
> > > >> >> >> > is similar to the alleged 'rogue trading' that brought down
> > Barings -
> > > >> >> >> > losses are being moved around through subsidiaries and the
> > ability to
> > > >> >> >> > 'mark to model' (instead of market) on assets - hence Bank of
> > America
> > > >> >> >> > is claiming to be worth $325 billion but is only trading at
> > £65
> > > >> >> >> > billion on the exchanges.
> > > >> >> >> > What we probably have is the near certainty of bank collapses.
> > We are
> > > >> >> >> > currently funding these bent operations instead of going to
> > full
> > > >> >> >> > employment and wealth redistribution to prevent recession.
> > > >> >> >> > Banks have sprung up all around the European drug routes for
> > no other
> > > >> >> >> > explicable reason (just like Miami in the past).
>
> > > >> >> >> > There is no reason for a global recession, but that's
> > different from
> > > >> >> >> > whether one is being engineered. The Greeks are currently
> > being
> > > >> >> >> > pilloried as having wasted all the money 'we' lent them - but
> > who made
> > > >> >> >> > the decisions to pile money in there rather than into
> > factories or
> > > >> >> >> > whatever? Not only is cash hard to track as Rigsby says - one
> > can't
> > > >> >> >> > even track through bank accounts of their own assets, much of
> > which
> > > >> >> >> > are junk but claimed, via securitisation as 'real'.
>
> > > >> >> >> > On Aug 27, 1:31 am, "Howard Lee Mosely Jr." <
> > howardmos...@gmail.com>
> > > >> >> >> > wrote:
>
> > > >> >> >> > > people are at a point where there own person and security
> > is for more
> > > >> >> >> > > value is worth more than loyality to at state : or
> > organizatoin : morals and
> > > >> >> >> > > manners discarded for more of a authorized control to ease a
> > subconcious
> > > >> >> >> > > rebeling of a hibitaully slaved mindstate than the sence of
> > being govern
> > > >> >> >> > > seems adverse to a widen culturaled soicity where humanity
> > over powers
> > > >> >> >> > > human error and misplaced hatreds for the presevation of all
> > kind humankind
> > > >> >> >> > > ??
>
> > > >> >> >> > > On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 6:12 AM, paradox <
> > eadohe...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> >> >> > > > Recently, i read of an "authority" on institutional debt
> > proclaim that
>
> ...
>
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