and be likely to be happy at all.
We can see that so far Communism has not really worked.
I agree that we must as a society look after those less abelt o look
after themselves, but we need to be very carefull indeed that we do
not create a sociaty of spongers.
On Sep 16, 3:39 pm, James Lynch <ashkas...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I believe in cradle to the grave social securities, and that is
> something that should be on offer. People will work for these things,
> make sacrifices, and likely be happy about it if they have a sense of
> it helping to strengthen society. I think many people would work
> harder and even be willing to work smarter if there were tangible
> results, if that work pays into the social securities and societal
> infrastructure and benefits the individual at the same time- what more
> could one ask for? Of course one could ask for more, and that is why I
> think we should have a dual economy- we obviously cannot trust the
> politicians, lobbyists, and corporate interests to factor human beings
> and the well being of society into their bottom line we need something
> to compensate for this. We need a progressive social plan that
> tenaciously pursues social stability, security, sustainability, and
> excellence from the bottom to the top and across the board for near
> and long term objectives. It should be an option.
>
> I am playing out hundreds of scenarios trying to solve the hard
> questions like the one you have raised Rigsy and there is no easy way
> out. I'm not omniscient either, actually battling with mental tumult
> and exhaustion in the process. It brings up the inconvenient truths
> such as who makes the decisions, who benefits and who is at a loss- it
> boils down to representation- should it? Even by pursuing a principled
> hierarchial weighting system to benefit the maximum number to the
> maximum degree over a temporal timeline some will be disadvantaged
> (lest we throw everything we have at each person in line)- it is
> obvious any workable system would account for need and availability,
> after identifying those ends part of the second task would be
> identifying where the current system lies in those terms and creating
> a context shift. It may turn out that everyone could live a longer and
> more fulfilling life consuming half of the current resources (or less)
> but it will take some intelligence to identify how to make it a
> reality and the systems required to secure this future and eliminate
> the implicit wastes that siphon off our collective human potential.
> Though everything isn't clear to me, I've developed a strong belief
> that we can achieve these ends and that we must if we wish to survive
> the challenges in our indefinite future.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 6:51 AM, rigsy03 <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > So- are you for "death panels"? Some day you will wake up and not be
> > so "new" anymore.
>
> > On Sep 16, 1:40 am, James Lynch <ashkas...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> My mother in law went to school with Mike, said he was a jerk or
> >> something like that. I thought it was a riot the way he showed our
> >> hometown, a highschooler then.
>
> >> Elsewhere, Archytas mentions this being the only game in town and I
> >> wonder facing the situational characterizations Moore lists what
> >> options does one have? I mean we either play their game or lose,
> >> period. Sure regions can begin to resist by conserving resources
> >> through internal trade and services but in the end everybody has to
> >> pay the tax man, tuition, fuel, etc. It makes me think we are all
> >> under the spell of a mass narcotic. I would like to see the rise of a
> >> dual economy come out of this disaster, one independent (the current
> >> model) and one social (remove gov't assistance from the old and apply
> >> to the new). The purpose of the social will be to fuel the improvement
> >> of society as a whole through massive public works projects like
> >> education, mentorship, health and care of those in need, removal of
> >> poverty and mitigation of its effects through quality individualized
> >> social reeducation programs beginning with relocation, therapeutic
> >> exercise (learning/gaining skills) and exposure to positive
> >> reinforcement. Sounds scary?
>
> >> On Sat, Aug 27, 2011 at 10:19 AM, ornamentalmind
>
> >> <ornsmindseyes...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> > Yes rigsy, the short lived US middle class is all but gone...and it is
> >> > no accident.
>
> >> >http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/08/06
>
> >> > Hyperbole, perhaps. Directly applicable?... absolutely!
>
> >> > On Aug 27, 6:29 am, rigsy03 <rigs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> The middle class is shrinking- the class that drives an economy.
>
> >> >> Greece is not a good example. Libya is a wealthy country- sweet crude,
> >> >> investments around the world=cash. Now the clean up crew will clean up
> >> >> with new oil contracts and rebuilding a ruined infrastructure all in
> >> >> the name of liberty and freedom as per the examples of Iraq and
> >> >> Afghanistan plus we have "miles"/countries to go, as Frost put it.
>
> >> >> On Aug 27, 2:12 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> >> > Banks are lying about money laundering - seehttp://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/03/us-bank-mexico-drug-gangs
> >> >> > - as an example. They are also hiding losses illegally through
> >> >> > massive false accounting that has been 'made legal'. The basic scam
> >> >> > is similar to the alleged 'rogue trading' that brought down Barings -
> >> >> > losses are being moved around through subsidiaries and the ability to
> >> >> > 'mark to model' (instead of market) on assets - hence Bank of America
> >> >> > is claiming to be worth $325 billion but is only trading at £65
> >> >> > billion on the exchanges.
> >> >> > What we probably have is the near certainty of bank collapses. We are
> >> >> > currently funding these bent operations instead of going to full
> >> >> > employment and wealth redistribution to prevent recession.
> >> >> > Banks have sprung up all around the European drug routes for no other
> >> >> > explicable reason (just like Miami in the past).
>
> >> >> > There is no reason for a global recession, but that's different from
> >> >> > whether one is being engineered. The Greeks are currently being
> >> >> > pilloried as having wasted all the money 'we' lent them - but who made
> >> >> > the decisions to pile money in there rather than into factories or
> >> >> > whatever? Not only is cash hard to track as Rigsby says - one can't
> >> >> > even track through bank accounts of their own assets, much of which
> >> >> > are junk but claimed, via securitisation as 'real'.
>
> >> >> > On Aug 27, 1:31 am, "Howard Lee Mosely Jr." <howardmos...@gmail.com>
> >> >> > wrote:
>
> >> >> > > people are at a point where there own person and security is for more
> >> >> > > value is worth more than loyality to at state : or organizatoin : morals and
> >> >> > > manners discarded for more of a authorized control to ease a subconcious
> >> >> > > rebeling of a hibitaully slaved mindstate than the sence of being govern
> >> >> > > seems adverse to a widen culturaled soicity where humanity over powers
> >> >> > > human error and misplaced hatreds for the presevation of all kind humankind
> >> >> > > ??
>
> >> >> > > On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 6:12 AM, paradox <eadohe...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> > > > Recently, i read of an "authority" on institutional debt proclaim that
> >> >> > > > a global recession was now inevitable. My first thought was that this
> >> >> > > > was something of a curious "God like" statement, which was actually
> >> >> > > > plain and simply wrong. There is actually next to no risk of a global
> >> >> > > > recession.
>
> >> >> > > > How do they get away with stuff like this, i wonder?
>
> >> >> > > --
> >> >> > > Howard Lee Mosely Jr.- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> >> > - Show quoted text -
>
> >> --
> >> Please do not put me on forwarding lists or submit my address to cute
> >> online greetings or anything else for that matter. If you must, please
> >> forward me in BCC and send me a link to cute greetings. Many thanks!- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
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