to what they are doing in saying it - as in political promises.
On Oct 15, 3:28 pm, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Who is Hoffer?
> That comment was a reference to a prophet not to a church.
> Allan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 2:51 PM, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > BBC-radio- had a report on the large Christian population of China,
> > which surprised me. It is supposed to be the fastest growing area for
> > Christianity. That could get testy.
>
> > Hoffer offers a very critical view of Jesus- paints him as a divider
> > and anti-female. ("The True Believer".) I think the Good Steward is a
> > parable I think of often- also the business about hiding one's light
> > under a bushel. Are you thinking of the mustard seed? Gosh- it's been
> > a long time since I've read the New Testament. I may be getting Jesus
> > confused with Aesop.
>
> > On Oct 15, 2:05 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I think that depends upon how strong the message is..
>
> > > but even then if you think about the parable Jesus used of the seeds.. no
> > > matter how strong the message and the person was there are many who will
> > > lose faith.
> > > Allan
>
> > > On Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 4:19 AM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > I've long wondered how we can suspect the prophet without losing faith
> > > > in the message.
>
> > > > On Oct 15, 1:44 am, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > The path between dismorphing and disinformation is narrow, that's
> > right,
> > > > > Neil.
>
> > > > > On Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 12:52 AM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > Cunning use of repetition Gabby.
>
> > > > > > On Oct 14, 6:02 pm, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > One might also be inclined to see something like "I mag I nation"
> > as
> > > > a
> > > > > > form
> > > > > > > of awakened imagination. Whether YOU would want to see it used
> > more
> > > > in
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > world then, I'd dare to question.
>
> > > > > > > On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 12:45 PM, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > > > Do you think it too far off the mark to understand the mind's
> > eye
> > > > as
> > > > > > > > imag-in-ation? the notion of the "awakened imagination" takes
> > us
> > > > from
> > > > > > > > a functional fantasy to a mystical truth. Whether considered a
> > > > sense
> > > > > > > > or an organ, I would like to see it used more in the world.
>
> > > > > > > > On Oct 13, 8:12 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > I wish I did rigsy - something that just looked or listened
> > > > through
> > > > > > > > > the noise and found the signal. I've had the odd feeling in
> > > > sport -
> > > > > > > > > the days when their fast bowling just flies off the middle of
> > the
> > > > bat
> > > > > > > > > and the odd mazy run and immaculate pass in rugby - you feel
> > a
> > > > > > > > > coordination as though something central is guiding you - but
> > > > this is
> > > > > > > > > really about the training effort. Most intellectual effort
> > feels
> > > > > > more
> > > > > > > > > like your head's been banging against walls, the same
> > problems
> > > > > > > > > defeating effort to penetrate. I did music to 'grade six'-
> > about
> > > > A
> > > > > > > > > level - with little talent and watch my grandson play the
> > guitar
> > > > much
> > > > > > > > > better than me with no ability to read music. I don't think
> > any
> > > > of
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > is really about talent in these senses or even Polanyi's
> > 'tacit
> > > > > > > > > knowledge' or dimension.
>
> > > > > > > > > My own suspicion is the external stimuli are much more
> > complex
> > > > than
> > > > > > we
> > > > > > > > > generally pay attention to and are over-simplified. I kind
> > of
> > > > see
> > > > > > > > > "mind's eye" as something that needs to be out there for
> > multiple
> > > > > > > > > efforts of interpretation. Instead there are Idols - more or
> > less
> > > > > > > > > 'pornography'. One can cut through this as in individual -
> > in
> > > > > > science
> > > > > > > > > one can then offer explanation to other trained minds - but
> > in
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > > wider sense of peer group (society) one has the added problem
> > of
> > > > > > > > > needing (and taking reluctant responsibility) to change much
> > more
> > > > > > > > > sensitive positions of others. This work is generally on
> > > > > > incompetence
> > > > > > > > > and getting people to admit to it (not forgetting one's own
> > and
> > > > > > > > > questionable duties to do it). What we have instead is
> > neurosis
> > > > and
> > > > > > > > > paranoid-schizoid positioning I see no introspective 'cure'
> > or
> > > > > > > > > 'undiscovered organ'.
>
> > > > > > > > > On Oct 14, 12:11 am, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > Yes- we don't hear or see with the keen senses of early
> > > > mankind-
> > > > > > they
> > > > > > > > > > have dulled. I think radio promoted imagination- there were
> > > > soaps,
> > > > > > > > > > children's programs, comedy, lots of music. Also the nuns
> > used
> > > > to
> > > > > > read
> > > > > > > > > > us fiction before bedtime. Some things suffer when made
> > into
> > > > film
> > > > > > or
> > > > > > > > > > tv programs if the casting is bad or jars with your own
> > > > image.//I
> > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > > > a problem with quantities/volumes- like Goldilocks, it
> > > > sometimes
> > > > > > takes
> > > > > > > > > > three times until it is "just right"!//I really liked
> > geometry
> > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > highschool but gave up during algebra- I think it had
> > something
> > > > to
> > > > > > do
> > > > > > > > > > with dating and boys- 10th grade- and what was considered
> > > > > > "feminine".
> > > > > > > > > > But I use math and science in practical ways all the time
> > > > around
> > > > > > home
> > > > > > > > > > and like a lot of "male" interests like carpentry, cement
> > work,
> > > > > > etc.
> > > > > > > > > > though I don't have as much energy but neither did Tolstoy
> > > > > > eventually.
>
> > > > > > > > > > Do you feel you have an inner eye and ear?
>
> > > > > > > > > > On Oct 13, 10:29 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > Loads of stugg comes up on googling images related to the
> > > > term
> > > > > > > > 'Mind's
> > > > > > > > > > > Eye' - not surprisingly a lot of the stuff has an eye in
> > it.
> > > > I
> > > > > > tend
> > > > > > > > > > > to run the 'eye' bit out in my pondering on what a mind's
> > eye
> > > > > > might
> > > > > > > > > > > be. Some former science colleagues better at maths than
> > me
> > > > used
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > try and describe 'visualisation' - how they could
> > manipulate
> > > > > > images
> > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > > geometry involving complex shapes and transformations. I
> > > > could
> > > > > > never
> > > > > > > > > > > do this and even have trouble working out what happens
> > to,
> > > > say,
> > > > > > door
> > > > > > > > > > > hinges if you turn the door upside down and round-a-bout.
> > I
> > > > > > could
> > > > > > > > > > > often 'guess' how a complex system of transformations
> > would
> > > > end
> > > > > > up,
> > > > > > > > > > > but could never 'see the process' as some claimed. This
> > was
> > > > > > > > something
> > > > > > > > > > > of a handicap in some stochastic work with molecule
> > shape.
>
> > > > > > > > > > > I'm watching an old Oliver film and have no sympathy with
> > > > Oliver
> > > > > > -
> > > > > > > > all
> > > > > > > > > > > with the other kids and the brilliantly played evil
> > roles. I
> > > > > > often
> > > > > > > > > > > have a lot of difficulty 'seeing' what others are being
> > > > suckered
> > > > > > by
> > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > > propaganda directly and instead a form of critique of the
> > > > stuff
> > > > > > > > > > > arises. I really dislike, say, Huckleberry Finn being
> > played
> > > > by
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > rich director's all too clean kid. I have a cinematic
> > > > > > daydreaming
> > > > > > > > > > > imagination, but no imaging comes from words when someone
> > > > says
> > > > > > > > 'table'
> > > > > > > > > > > - my sister 'sees' gargoyles if you say the word.
>
> > > > > > > > > > > I'm struck there is no 'eye' in mind's eye even though I
> > > > might as
> > > > > > > > well
> > > > > > > > > > > be in a cinema when daydreaming. Though one might ask if
> > > > what I
> > > > > > see
> > > > > > > > > > > 'in cinema' relies on past sight - though again I'm not
> > > > usually
> > > > > > > > > > > 'seeing' recalled events. I find the artist's attempts
> > at
> > > > > > 'mind's
> > > > > > > > > > > eye' disappointing.
>
> > > > > > > > > > > I'm unsure how I notice so strongly that "economics" (a
> > > > subject I
> > > > > > > > > > > teach with no enthusiasm) is just a 'smell of words'
> > around
> > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > obvious failure in human cooperation always leading to a
> > very
> > > > > > small
> > > > > > > > > > > number amassing riches. It's like a gas keeping he
> > > > truth-seeker
> > > > > > at
> > > > > > > > > > > bay. We are as far from the double-helix in this as the
> > > > tribe
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > > denies paternity through sex, investing it instead in
> > ghosts
> > > > with
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > 'father role' played by maternal uncles.
>
> > > > > > > > > > > It's been my view for many years that argument fails
> > except
> > > > in
> > > > > > very
> > > > > > > > > > > special circumstances. The Greeks knew this because
> > equally
> > > > > > powerful
> > > > > > > > > > > argument could be adduced for many different views. They
> > > > > > invented a
> > > > > > > > > > > kind of "mind's eye" (see Pyhrronism) in which competing
> > > > > > arguments
> > > > > > > > > > > could be assessed. This is rather too expert for me. I
> > > > suspect
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > > what we can't do is strip argument of its propaganda, and
> > > > suspect
> > > > > > > > > > > again this is a matter of fear of violence in challenging
> > > > > > 'deeply'
> > > > > > > > > > > held views - and further that these views are
> > ill-considered
> > > > > > dross.
> > > > > > > > > > > One can feel another danger here of the zealot and
> > know-all.
> > > > In
> > > > > > my
> > > > > > > > > > > mind's eye argument comes with smells,
>
> ...
>
> read more »
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