Politicians seem to have a creed that was pointed out earlier by a member of this group. Politicians seem to say one thing then do something entirely different.
Allan
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On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 12:25 PM, richard blay <richsun.b@gmail.com> wrote:
Perfectly, Allan, on the part of the politicians. until part of the
solution is done, which is your idea on board, the situation will ever
remain as it is...even worse.
On 10/26/11, Allan H <allanh1946@gmail.com> wrote:
> Politicians have truths that apply to everyone else except them. and they
> never feel the sting of the whip.
> I know over here the politicians doubled their salaries just before
> the financial crash, not surprising though the pay raise was never removed
> the extra income, so they live at twice the wage while no pay raises not
> even cost of living for public employees like fire department , Police
> people or others..
>
> I am sure that if you look the same thing has happened in your country no
> matter which one it is.. Politicians seem to be acting on their own
> behalf and those of their rich friends..
>
> Maybe all politicians should be put on minimum wage with no assistance
> from friend or family.. with only services of public
> assistance available to them and their family. I do know something needs
> to be done to bring this political privilege under control.. maybe a
> better way to put it is get control of the out right bribery.
> Allan
>
> On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 10:09 AM, archytas <nwterry@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I tend to like the idea too Allan - one way to the positive is to do.
>> In the more intellectual sense, getting to the positive (which has
>> many definitions) usually means stripping away loads of dross. In the
>> process one usually finds the dross is cherished and part of the
>> reason nothing can ever get done!
>>
>> One aspect of all the nonsense of current economic utterings that
>> makes me laugh at the moment (or is it cry?) is the idea of raising
>> pension age in order to save money - this is full of assumptions that
>> there re jobs to do, that clinging to one doesn't prevent someone else
>> doing it and so on.
>>
>> On Oct 25, 8:19 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Lol do I start with you Gabby? I would not want to push people. If they
>> > wanted to contribute it would be great. A larger starting point, but
>> > nothing beyond their means though.
>> >
>> > I can not help but wonder how it will evolve, I am sure it will be
>> > interesting,
>> > Allan
>> > On Oct 25, 2011 9:03 AM, "gabbydott" <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > > I quite like your idea, Allan. You've got my vote to keep on trying to
>> > > persuade the others to see if they have some 100 Euros to spare.
>> >
>> > > On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 7:58 AM, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > >> I know Neil it is but a pittance that is what so funny about it..
>> > >> I
>> > >> think the problem lies in the short term,, Maybe that is what it
>> should
>> > >> be called is the pittance fund..
>> > >> Money is a problem because it is guided by people who's interests is
>> self
>> > >> centered. creating the pittance fund,, then we have the time and
>> > >> possibility to get it to grow.. and provide the long term guidance
>> to make
>> > >> it successful over 500 plus years where it would reach the size.. at
>> witch
>> > >> time the pittance fund would be as powerful or more powerful than the
>> other
>> > >> markets.. it takes for sight..
>> > >> What I am saying by putting up my 100 Euro is that our combined
>> > >> wisdom
>> > >> and knowledge exceeds that of the normal public. it would be chance
>> to put
>> > >> our theories into practice.. Even if we fail we have tried and can
>> not be
>> > >> faulted for that.. but I do not think that will happen,,
>> > >> Allan
>> >
>> > >> On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 2:54 AM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > >>> If you do any radical thinking at all you should at least guess
>> > >>> money
>> > >>> may be as much of a problem as an asset Allan. The money in our
>> > >>> pockets, under your mattress and in current accounts is dwarfed by
>> the
>> > >>> same currency in the derivatives and other shadow markets. What we
>> > >>> should focus on is how we can build through effort and organisation.
>> >
>> > >>> On Oct 25, 12:39 am, Vam <atewari2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >>> > Find out ( Chris ? ) what it takes to register a formal NGO Trust
>> > >>> > ( with Tax benefits and Donations tax-exempt ) operating a news -
>> > >>> > magazine website ...
>> >
>> > >>> > WE THE PEOPLE : ALTERNATE NEWS, RECLAIMING EFFORTS & REDEFINED
>> > >>> > THOUGHTS FROM AROUND THE WORLD...
>> >
>> > >>> > We then can pool in people centered news, efforts at reclaiming
>> > >>> > our
>> > >>> > lives and freedoms, and path breaking thoughts from all over the
>> world
>> > >>> > in diverse fields such as science, medicine, sociology,
>> > >>> > psychology,
>> > >>> > economics, management, public service, governance,
>> entrepreneurship...
>> > >>> > along lines of " Global Voices "... overseen by a crack Editorial
>> > >>> > Team.
>> >
>> > >>> > We may then perhaps know what it would take... what more would
>> have to
>> > >>> > be scrounged and how...
>> >
>> > >>> > On Oct 24, 10:35 pm, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > >>> > > it is because it is compounded ,, i figured it at
>> > >>> > > annual interest payment.. if you take your principle and
>> > >>> immediately add
>> > >>> > > the interest you have increased your principle by that amount..
>> a
>> > >>> hundred
>> > >>> > > euro becomes 104 Euro..
>> >
>> > >>> > > to demonstrate the effect if you are paying off the mortgage
>> > >>> > > on
>> > >>> your
>> > >>> > > house in say 15 years,, making a monthly payment,, if you
>> split
>> > >>> the
>> > >>> > > payment in half paying the loan 1/2 on the 1st and the other 1/2
>> on
>> > >>> the
>> > >>> > > 15th.. remember you are paying exactly the same amount each
>> month,,
>> > >>> > > instead of taking 15 years to pay the loan it will take you
>> only 13
>> > >>> 1/2
>> > >>> > > years to pay it back..
>> >
>> > >>> > > If your payment was say $1,000. (no Euro sign) you would be
>> saving
>> > >>> your
>> > >>> > > self $18,000. in payments.. not a bad piece of pocket change
>> > >>> > > you
>> > >>> ask me..
>> >
>> > >>> > > Does that help you understand they power of money if used
>> > >>> intelligently and
>> > >>> > > effectively?
>> > >>> > > Allan
>> >
>> > >>> > > RP could you see a company that simply made house payments??
>> they
>> > >>> pay you
>> > >>> > > once a month and you pay the Bankster 2X a month??
>> >
>> > >>> > > On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 7:19 PM, RP Singh <123...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > >>> > > > Again , Allan , I don't see how 100 euros grow so
>> astronomically
>> > >>> at a
>> > >>> > > > simple rate of interest of 4% ?
>> >
>> > >>> > > > On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 8:40 PM, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com
>> >
>> > >>> wrote:
>> > >>> > > > > Okay I have been doing a lot of thinking ... well I am sure
>> > >>> there are
>> > >>> > > > > enough good ideas that can radically change the world..
>> Oddly I
>> > >>> really
>> > >>> > > > do
>> > >>> > > > > not think it will take massive amounts,, but it will take
>> some
>> > >>> funds
>> > >>> > > > and I
>> > >>> > > > > have a lot of faith in our group to be able to develop
>> workable
>> > >>> ideas..
>> > >>> > > > > Now to put my money with my mouth is even though I do not
>> have
>> > >>> massive
>> > >>> > > > > amounts of money I can easily contribute 100 Euro to commit
>> to
>> > >>> a fund to
>> > >>> > > > > change the world.. I do not know if others are willing to
>> > >>> develop a
>> > >>> > > > world
>> > >>> > > > > improvement fund. as I know this discussion will go one for
>> > >>> years after
>> > >>> > > > we
>> > >>> > > > > are gone I could for see it still in existence 500
>> > >>> > > > > onward..
>> > >>> > > > > there needs to be unchangeable able rules like
>> > >>> > > > > The principle can not be spent..
>> > >>> > > > > No more than 20 % of the income can be spent on fund
>> > >>> administration.
>> > >>> > > > > 20 % of the income generated must be added to the principle
>> > >>> every year,
>> > >>> > > > (or
>> > >>> > > > > more often)
>> > >>> > > > > How the 60 % well .. some types of projects just do not make
>> > >>> nor are
>> > >>> > > > meant
>> > >>> > > > > to make money just for the improvement of society some
>> where..
>> > >>> > > > > Now there is even a small amount of money available.
>> > >>> > > > > We need to discuss how to set it up maybe I have it all
>> > >>> confused,,
>> > >>> > > > anyways
>> > >>> > > > > I will send the money to where it is decided to set up the
>> > >>> funds,,
>> > >>> > > > There is
>> > >>> > > > > one hundred Euro available sitting in a tin behind me.. If
>> > >>> others do
>> > >>> > > > > contribute it should be in amounts of their own currency and
>> to
>> > >>> an amount
>> > >>> > > > > that will not cause harm to them or thier families... as
>> > >>> > > > > once
>> > >>> the money
>> > >>> > > > is
>> > >>> > > > > gone it is gone and can not be expect to have it returned.
>> > >>> > > > > If we set it up and develop it correctly in five hundred
>> years
>> > >>> that 100
>> > >>> > > > > Euros will have a value if it grows at a simple 4% of:
>> > >>> > > > > 32,860,158,157.oo Euro
>> > >>> > > > > 32 billion is an amount that can have some on going effects
>> to
>> > >>> improve
>> > >>> > > > > society.. It is called putting your money where your mouth
>> is..
>> > >>> The
>> > >>> > > > > question is who wants to run it.. I am not able to Vam?
>> Molly?
>> > >>> Neil?
>> > >>> > > > Chris?
>> > >>> > > > > Rigsy? hmmm
>> > >>> > > > > Allan
>> >
>> > >>> > > > > Because
>> >
>> > >>> > > > > On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 11:57 AM, Vam <atewari2...@gmail.com
>> >
>> > >>> wrote:
>> >
>> > >>> > > > >> Ah, Rigs... that isn't as tragic... as the fact that Cheats
>> are
>> > >>> Elites
>> > >>> > > > >> and Elites are Thieves !
>> >
>> > >>> > > > >> On Oct 24, 2:23 pm, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > >>> > > > >> > Machines/technology are replacing human labor. Children
>> might
>> > >>> do
>> > >>> > > > >> > better being educated via computer and leave
>> socialization to
>> > >>> play
>> > >>> > > > >> > groups and sports. The military can effect as much damage
>> via
>> > >>> remote
>> > >>> > > > >> > control. But- will women return to being stay-at-home
>> > >>> moms/homemakers
>> > >>> > > > >> > thus freeing up what jobs remain for the men? I doubt it
>> - it
>> > >>> has
>> > >>> > > > >> > become an ego/security matter for Western women. There
>> will
>> > >>> always be
>> > >>> > > > >> > cheats and thieves, Archytas, who cause as much monetary
>> > >>> losses as the
>> > >>> > > > >> > "elites"- it's all relative, depending on the number of
>> zeros.
>> >
>> > >>> > > > >> > On Oct 24, 1:37 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > >>> > > > >> > > There was philosophy once called logical positivism.
>> > >>> \\it's people
>> > >>> > > > >> > > were well-intentioned, like Russell and Carnap. If you
>> > >>> have a few
>> > >>> > > > >> > > hours to spare I could explain its basics - in the end
>> it
>> > >>> got so
>> > >>> > > > >> > > concerned with words they were all that was left.
>> > >>> Strangely it was
>> > >>> > > > >> > > accused of being crude in its use of brute fact.
>> >
>> > >>> > > > >> > > The problem as I see it is that we want democracy but
>> have
>> > >>> not
>> > >>> > > > found a
>> > >>> > > > >> > > way to accept its biggest flaw - that of decisions made
>> > >>> through the
>> > >>> > > > >> > > sway of ignorance, and further problems with the
>> corruption
>> > >>> of
>> > >>> > > > >> > > representatives. Attempts at a fix of this in
>> perfection
>> > >>> are doomed
>> > >>> > > > >> > > or the equivalent of fiddling while Rome burns.
>> >
>> > >>> > > > >> > > One might try to produce communication free of ideology
>> and
>> > >>> this let
>> > >>> > > > >> > > Reason alone have power (Habermas) - but as far as I
>> > >>> > > > >> > > can
>> > >>> see this
>> > >>> > > > >> > > never works - and Habermas only suggests his 'ideal
>> speech
>> > >>> > > > situation'
>> > >>> > > > >> > > as an ideal type (following Weber).
>> >
>> > >>> > > > >> > > The best positive I can reach is that we could change
>> our
>> > >>> material
>> > >>> > > > >> > > conditions to produce less discontent. To get to an
>> > >>> understanding
>> > >>> > > > of
>> > >>> > > > >> > > this we need to agree on some basic facts - and the
>> > >>> > > > >> > > move
>> > >>> towards
>> > >>> > > > these
>> > >>> > > > >> > > is critical. People as old as Orn and myself can
>> remember
>> > >>> when it
>> > >>> > > > was
>> > >>> > > > >> > > possible for most in the West to get somewhere near
>> > >>> > > > >> > > this
>> > >>> because
>> > >>> > > > there
>> > >>> > > > >> > > were plenty of well paid jobs about. Oversimplifying a
>> lot
>> > >>> this is
>> > >>> > > > >> > > not now the case and we need to establish what the new
>> > >>> conditions
>> > >>> > > > are.
>> >
>> > >>> > > > >> > > Productivity is vastly enhanced from the times in which
>> our
>> > >>> work
>> > >>> > > > >> > > ethics arose. My guess is we could get by quite nicely
>> on
>> > >>> a 30hr
>> > >>> > > > >> > > working week and a 40 week year with
>> >
>> > ...
>> >
>> > read more »
>
>
>
>
> --
> (
> )
> |_D Allan
>
> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>
(
)
|_D Allan
Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
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