Re: [Mind's Eye] Re: getting to the positive

Besides being a future project it is a great but will prove the wisdom of this group of nothing else..  and a gift to the future generations.. I figure the members of this group actually have the knowledge and wisdom to set it up.

I do think I know actually where to set it up  were the effect could be measured,,  because the total economics is known.  If you are wondering it is Malta,, all it has is a very small fishing industry (local) a small amount of farming (Ancient fields) and lastly a tourist industry which it depends.. There already is a long lasting charity ..  The knights of Malta have been around for centuries so they would not be adverse to setting it up there..  especially if they got their 15% tax,,

It would be interesting to set up a fund that would take it from a backwater tourist destination without much going for it to a financial power house of the world..I may not see it but it would be kool.. as those that started it would be known historically..
Just a thought
Allan

On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 5:17 PM, richard blay <richsun.b@gmail.com> wrote:
Mmm! that is great a vision, Allan. we are being optismistic here, but
how do we know this ' generation' will walk and see beyond the sunset
as we are seeing today? the answer is ' atleast we have done our
part'... great initiative.

On 10/26/11, Allan H <allanh1946@gmail.com> wrote:
> Oh yeah Richard,, unfortunately politics is heavily influnced
> by corporate bribery and wealthy individuals who leave me wondering if they
> care about their money or the people they are supposed to care for and look
> after there interest.
> Politicians seem to have a creed that was pointed out earlier by a member
> of this group. Politicians seem to say one thing then do something entirely
> different.
> Allan
>
> On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 12:25 PM, richard blay <richsun.b@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Perfectly, Allan, on the part of the politicians. until part of the
>> solution is done, which is your idea on board, the situation will ever
>> remain as it is...even worse.
>>
>> On 10/26/11, Allan H <allanh1946@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Politicians have truths that apply to everyone else except them. and
>> > they
>> > never feel the sting of the whip.
>> > I know over here the politicians doubled their salaries just before
>> > the financial crash,  not surprising though the pay raise was never
>> removed
>> > the extra income,  so they live  at twice the wage while no pay raises
>> not
>> > even cost of living for public employees  like fire department , Police
>> > people or others..
>> >
>> > I am sure that if you look the same thing has happened in your country
>> > no
>> > matter which  one it is..  Politicians seem to be acting on their own
>> > behalf and those of their rich friends..
>> >
>> > Maybe all politicians should be put on minimum wage with no assistance
>> > from friend or family..  with only services of public
>> > assistance available to them  and their family. I do know something
>> > needs
>> > to be done to bring this political privilege under control..  maybe a
>> > better way to put it is get control of the out right bribery.
>> > Allan
>> >
>> > On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 10:09 AM, archytas <nwterry@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> I tend to like the idea too Allan - one way to the positive is to do.
>> >> In the more intellectual sense, getting to the positive (which has
>> >> many definitions) usually means stripping away loads of dross.  In the
>> >> process one usually finds the dross is cherished and part of the
>> >> reason nothing can ever get done!
>> >>
>> >> One aspect of all the nonsense of current economic utterings that
>> >> makes me laugh at the moment (or is it cry?) is the idea of raising
>> >> pension age in order to save money - this is full of assumptions that
>> >> there re jobs to do, that clinging to one doesn't prevent someone else
>> >> doing it and so on.
>> >>
>> >> On Oct 25, 8:19 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > Lol do I start with you Gabby? I would not want to push people. If
>> they
>> >> > wanted to contribute it would be great. A larger starting point, but
>> >> > nothing beyond their means though.
>> >> >
>> >> > I can not help but wonder how it will evolve, I am sure it will be
>> >> > interesting,
>> >> > Allan
>> >> >  On Oct 25, 2011 9:03 AM, "gabbydott" <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > > I quite like your idea, Allan. You've got my vote to keep on trying
>> to
>> >> > > persuade the others to see if they have some 100 Euros to spare.
>> >> >
>> >> > > On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 7:58 AM, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > >> I know Neil  it is but a pittance  that is what so funny about
>> >> > >> it..
>> >> > >> I
>> >> > >> think the problem lies in the short term,,   Maybe that is what it
>> >> should
>> >> > >> be called is the pittance fund..
>> >> > >> Money is a problem because it is guided by people who's interests
>> is
>> >> self
>> >> > >> centered.  creating the pittance fund,, then we have the time and
>> >> > >> possibility to get it to grow..  and provide the long term
>> >> > >> guidance
>> >> to make
>> >> > >> it successful over 500 plus years where it would reach the size..
>>  at
>> >> witch
>> >> > >> time the pittance fund would be as powerful or more powerful than
>> the
>> >> other
>> >> > >> markets..  it takes for sight..
>> >> > >> What I am saying by putting up my 100 Euro is that our combined
>> >> > >> wisdom
>> >> > >> and knowledge  exceeds that of the normal public. it would be
>> chance
>> >> to put
>> >> > >> our theories into practice.. Even if we fail we have tried and can
>> >> not be
>> >> > >> faulted for that.. but I do not think that will happen,,
>> >> > >> Allan
>> >> >
>> >> > >> On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 2:54 AM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > >>> If you do any radical thinking at all you should at least guess
>> >> > >>> money
>> >> > >>> may be as much of a problem as an asset Allan.  The money in our
>> >> > >>> pockets, under your mattress and in current accounts is dwarfed
>> >> > >>> by
>> >> the
>> >> > >>> same currency in the derivatives and other shadow markets.  What
>> we
>> >> > >>> should focus on is how we can build through effort and
>> organisation.
>> >> >
>> >> > >>> On Oct 25, 12:39 am, Vam <atewari2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > >>> > Find out ( Chris ? ) what it takes to register a formal NGO
>> Trust
>> >> > >>> > ( with Tax benefits and Donations tax-exempt ) operating a news
>> -
>> >> > >>> > magazine website ...
>> >> >
>> >> > >>> > WE THE PEOPLE : ALTERNATE NEWS, RECLAIMING EFFORTS & REDEFINED
>> >> > >>> > THOUGHTS FROM AROUND THE WORLD...
>> >> >
>> >> > >>> > We then can pool in people centered news, efforts at reclaiming
>> >> > >>> > our
>> >> > >>> > lives and freedoms, and path breaking thoughts from all over
>> >> > >>> > the
>> >> world
>> >> > >>> > in diverse fields such as science, medicine, sociology,
>> >> > >>> > psychology,
>> >> > >>> > economics, management, public service, governance,
>> >> entrepreneurship...
>> >> > >>> > along lines of " Global Voices "... overseen by a crack
>> Editorial
>> >> > >>> > Team.
>> >> >
>> >> > >>> > We may then perhaps know what it would take... what more would
>> >> have to
>> >> > >>> > be scrounged and how...
>> >> >
>> >> > >>> > On Oct 24, 10:35 pm, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > >>> > > it is because it is compounded  ,, i figured it at
>> >> > >>> > >  annual interest payment..  if you take your principle and
>> >> > >>> immediately add
>> >> > >>> > > the interest  you have increased your principle by that
>> amount..
>> >>  a
>> >> > >>> hundred
>> >> > >>> > > euro becomes 104 Euro..
>> >> >
>> >> > >>> > > to demonstrate the effect   if you are paying off the
>> >> > >>> > > mortgage
>> >> > >>> > > on
>> >> > >>> your
>> >> > >>> > > house in say 15 years,,  making a monthly payment,,  if you
>> >>  split
>> >> > >>> the
>> >> > >>> > > payment in half paying the loan 1/2 on the 1st and the other
>> 1/2
>> >> on
>> >> > >>> the
>> >> > >>> > > 15th..  remember you are paying exactly the same amount each
>> >> month,,
>> >> > >>> > >  instead of taking 15 years to pay the loan it will take you
>> >> only 13
>> >> > >>> 1/2
>> >> > >>> > > years to pay it back..
>> >> >
>> >> > >>> > > If your payment was say $1,000. (no Euro sign) you would be
>> >> saving
>> >> > >>> your
>> >> > >>> > > self $18,000. in payments..  not a bad piece of pocket change
>> >> > >>> > > you
>> >> > >>> ask me..
>> >> >
>> >> > >>> > > Does that help you understand they power of money if used
>> >> > >>> intelligently and
>> >> > >>> > > effectively?
>> >> > >>> > > Allan
>> >> >
>> >> > >>> > > RP  could you see a company that simply made house payments??
>> >>  they
>> >> > >>> pay you
>> >> > >>> > > once a month and you pay the Bankster 2X a month??
>> >> >
>> >> > >>> > > On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 7:19 PM, RP Singh <123...@gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > >>> > > > Again , Allan , I don't see how 100 euros grow so
>> >> astronomically
>> >> > >>> at a
>> >> > >>> > > > simple rate of interest of 4% ?
>> >> >
>> >> > >>> > > > On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 8:40 PM, Allan H <
>> allanh1...@gmail.com
>> >> >
>> >> > >>> wrote:
>> >> > >>> > > > > Okay  I have been doing a lot of thinking ... well I am
>> sure
>> >> > >>> there are
>> >> > >>> > > > > enough good ideas that can radically change the world..
>> >>  Oddly I
>> >> > >>> really
>> >> > >>> > > > do
>> >> > >>> > > > > not think it will take massive amounts,,  but it will
>> >> > >>> > > > > take
>> >> some
>> >> > >>> funds
>> >> > >>> > > > and I
>> >> > >>> > > > > have a lot of faith in our group to be able to develop
>> >> workable
>> >> > >>> ideas..
>> >> > >>> > > > > Now to put my money with my mouth is even though I do not
>> >> have
>> >> > >>> massive
>> >> > >>> > > > > amounts of money I can easily contribute 100 Euro to
>> commit
>> >> to
>> >> > >>>  a fund to
>> >> > >>> > > > > change the world..  I do not know if others are willing
>> >> > >>> > > > > to
>> >> > >>> develop a
>> >> > >>> > > > world
>> >> > >>> > > > > improvement fund.  as I know this discussion will go one
>> for
>> >> > >>> years after
>> >> > >>> > > > we
>> >> > >>> > > > > are gone  I could for see it still in existence  500
>> >> > >>> > > > > onward..
>> >> > >>> > > > > there needs to be unchangeable able rules like
>> >> > >>> > > > > The principle can not be spent..
>> >> > >>> > > > > No more than 20 % of the income can be spent on fund
>> >> > >>> administration.
>> >> > >>> > > > > 20 % of the income generated must be added to the
>> principle
>> >> > >>> every year,
>> >> > >>> > > > (or
>> >> > >>> > > > > more often)
>> >> > >>> > > > > How the 60 % well .. some types of projects just do not
>> make
>> >> > >>>  nor are
>> >> > >>> > > > meant
>> >> > >>> > > > > to make money just for the improvement of society some
>> >> where..
>> >> > >>> > > > > Now there is even a small amount of money available.
>> >> > >>> > > > > We need to discuss how to set it up  maybe I have it all
>> >> > >>> confused,,
>> >> > >>> > > >  anyways
>> >> > >>> > > > > I will send the money to where it is decided to set up
>> >> > >>> > > > > the
>> >> > >>> funds,,
>> >> > >>> > > >  There is
>> >> > >>> > > > > one hundred Euro available sitting in a tin behind me..
>>  If
>> >> > >>> others do
>> >> > >>> > > > > contribute it should be in amounts of their own currency
>> and
>> >> to
>> >> > >>> an amount
>> >> > >>> > > > > that will not cause harm to them or thier families... as
>> >> > >>> > > > > once
>> >> > >>> the money
>> >> > >>> > > > is
>> >> > >>> > > > > gone it is gone and can not be expect to have it
>> >> > >>> > > > > returned.
>> >> > >>> > > > > If we set it up and develop it correctly in five hundred
>> >> years
>> >> > >>> that 100
>> >> > >>> > > > > Euros will have a value if it grows at a simple 4% of:
>> >> > >>> > > > > 32,860,158,157.oo  Euro
>> >> > >>> > > > > 32 billion is an amount that can have some on going
>> effects
>> >> to
>> >> > >>> improve
>> >> > >>> > > > > society..  It is called putting your money where your
>> mouth
>> >> is..
>> >> > >>> The
>> >> > >>> > > > > question is who wants to run it..  I am not able to Vam?
>> >> Molly?
>> >> > >>> Neil?
>> >> > >>> > > > Chris?
>> >> > >>> > > > >  Rigsy? hmmm
>> >> > >>> > > > > Allan
>> >> >
>> >> > >>> > > > > Because
>> >> >
>> >> > >>> > > > > On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 11:57 AM, Vam <
>> atewari2...@gmail.com
>> >> >
>> >> > >>> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > >>> > > > >> Ah, Rigs... that isn't as tragic... as the fact that
>> Cheats
>> >> are
>> >> > >>> Elites
>> >> > >>> > > > >> and Elites are Thieves !
>> >> >
>> >> > >>> > > > >> On Oct 24, 2:23 pm, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >> > >>> > > > >> > Machines/technology are replacing human labor.
>> >> > >>> > > > >> > Children
>> >> might
>> >> > >>> do
>> >> > >>> > > > >> > better being educated via computer and leave
>> >> socialization to
>> >> > >>> play
>> >> > >>> > > > >> > groups and sports. The military can effect as much
>> damage
>> >> via
>> >> > >>> remote
>> >> > >>> > > > >> > control. But- will women return to being stay-at-home
>> >> > >>> moms/homemakers
>> >> > >>> > > > >> > thus freeing up what jobs remain for the men? I doubt
>> it
>> >> - it
>> >> > >>> has
>> >> > >>> > > > >> > become an ego/security matter for Western women. There
>> >> will
>> >> > >>> always be
>> >> > >>> > > > >> > cheats and thieves, Archytas, who cause as much
>> monetary
>> >> > >>> losses as the
>> >> > >>> > > > >> > "elites"- it's all relative, depending on the number
>> >> > >>> > > > >> > of
>> >> zeros.
>> >> >
>> >> > >>> > > > >> > On Oct 24, 1:37 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > >>> > > > >> > > There was philosophy once called logical positivism.
>> >> > >>>  \\it's people
>> >> > >>> > > > >> > > were well-intentioned, like Russell and Carnap.  If
>> you
>> >> > >>> have a few
>> >> > >>> > > > >> > > hours to spare I could explain its basics - in the
>> end
>> >> it
>> >> > >>> got so
>> >> > >>> > > > >> > > concerned with words they were all that was left.
>> >> > >>>  Strangely it was
>> >> > >>> > > > >> > > accused of being crude in its use of brute fact.
>> >> >
>> >> > >>> > > > >> > > The problem as I see it is that we want democracy
>> >> > >>> > > > >> > > but
>> >> have
>> >> > >>> not
>> >> > >>> > > > found a
>> >> > >>> > > > >> > > way to accept its biggest flaw - that of decisions
>> made
>> >> > >>> through the
>> >> > >>> > > > >> > > sway of ignorance, and further problems with the
>> >> corruption
>> >> > >>> of
>> >> > >>> > > > >> > > representatives.  Attempts at a fix of this in
>> >> perfection
>> >> > >>> are doomed
>> >> > >>> > > > >> > > or the equivalent of fiddling while Rome burns.
>> >> >
>> >> > >>> > > > >> > > One might try to produce communication free of
>> ideology
>> >> and
>> >> > >>> this let
>> >> > >>> > > > >> > > Reason alone have power (Habermas) - but as far as I
>> >> > >>> > > > >> > > can
>> >> > >>> see this
>> >> > >>> > > > >> > > never works - and Habermas only suggests his 'ideal
>> >> speech
>> >> > >>> > > > situation'
>> >> > >>> > > > >> > > as an ideal type (following Weber).
>> >> >
>> >> > >>> > > > >> > > The best positive I can reach is that we could
>> >> > >>> > > > >> > > change
>> >> our
>> >> > >>> material
>> >> > >>> > > > >> > > conditions to produce less discontent.  To get to an
>> >> > >>> understanding
>> >> > >>> > > > of
>> >> > >>> > > > >> > > this we need to agree on some basic facts - and the
>> >> > >>> > > > >> > > move
>> >> > >>> towards
>> >> > >>> > > > these
>> >> > >>> > > > >> > > is critical.  People as old as Orn and myself can
>> >> remember
>> >> > >>> when it
>> >> > >>> > > > was
>> >> > >>> > > > >> > > possible for most in the West to get somewhere near
>> >> > >>> > > > >> > > this
>> >> > >>> because
>> >> > >>> > > > there
>> >> > >>> > > > >> > > were plenty of well paid jobs about.
>>  Oversimplifying a
>> >> lot
>> >> > >>> this is
>> >> > >>> > > > >> > > not now the case and we need to establish what the
>> new
>> >> > >>> conditions
>> >> > >>> > > > are.
>> >> >
>> >> > >>> > > > >> > > Productivity is vastly enhanced from the times in
>> which
>> >> our
>> >> > >>> work
>> >> > >>> > > > >> > > ethics arose.  My guess is we could get by quite
>> nicely
>> >> on
>> >> > >>> a 30hr
>> >> > >>> > > > >> > > working week and a 40 week year with
>> >> >
>> >> > ...
>> >> >
>> >> > read more »
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> >  (
>> >   )
>> > |_D Allan
>> >
>> > Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>> >
>>
>
>
>
> --
>  (
>   )
> |_D Allan
>
> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>



--
 (
  )
|_D Allan

Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.



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