excuses made up under the influence on arriving home to face the
rolling pin. It's hard to gauge what is original in ancient texts -
many were copies or fakes. Imagine us meeting on some beach and asking
each other why we were there for war. I say it's all about some chick
with a pretty face and you notice my looting wagon! You give me some
heroic speech on valour, but as we pass your looting wagon hidden
behind a couple of bushes and we collapse laughing.
On Nov 14, 7:45 am, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I saw The Immortals yesterday in theaters and I agree. Ancient heros
> suck. At least they did in this very bad madefortv/soapoperatype sad
> excuse for entertainment I paid 12 bucks a ticket to suffer through.
> Yes, that's right. 12 bucks per ticket. It was in 3D. So add a
> headache to the wasted time and money.
>
> The fight scenes and a few of the camera cuts and cgi combos were
> pretty good but everything else sucked major balls. By same people
> that did the 300 which was a much better movie. If I had been there
> with anyone besides my son(I try not to embarrass him) I would have
> amused myself by shouting "Beef Cake!" obnoxiously every time a dude
> with an impressive six-pack was shown tunic-less. Which was often.
>
> dj
>
> On Nov 12, 3:22 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > I translated the cat as getting me to stroke her to make the pup
> > jealous and that she succeeded well in this. I wonder whether it was
> > a step too far to think she was exacting a sister's revenge as my own
> > had done in such play. I agree with Allan but am bored with ancient
> > heroes whether made modern or not. One might rewrite like Cervantes,
> > as series of exploits only the horse understands, or in radical
> > regendering, a female cat. A heroic project Don, though Plato did
> > comment you couldn't be sure of the meaning of Greek words from one
> > generation to the next. We did it at school, so it's destroyed
> > already in me!
>
> > On Nov 12, 8:53 pm, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > I was watching TV the other day and I was watching Sherlock Holmes a very
> > > updated version in todays world.. the thought occurred to me whay not up
> > > date the Illiad into the 21century? Yes it would take extreme creativity
> > > but you would be able to bring the balance and harmony to the language.
> > > Just a thought
> > > Allan
>
> > > On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 8:13 PM, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Do you know why a picture book of Homer's oddysee without words would not
> > > > sell well, Francis? People pay for being given the right words and not to
> > > > think of the right words. Which is fine to a certain extent. To the extent
> > > > that they take words for the truth.
>
> > > > On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 7:43 PM, Francis Hunt <francis.h...@googlemail.com
> > > > > wrote:
>
> > > >> The following contains some interesting comments on translation from one
> > > >> of my favourite bloggers:
>
> > > >>http://perpetual-lab.blogspot.com/2011/07/homers-odyssey.html
>
> > > >> On 12 November 2011 19:33, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > >>> Buh, this sounds like the pee water adaption! A dreadful twang in pink
> > > >>> tütü!
>
> > > >>> But you are right, your English language is definitely more poetic than
> > > >>> the sober German language, for example.
>
> > > >>> On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 6:48 PM, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > >>>> I thought this was very interesting. I'm very appreciative of how
> > > >>>> writing can flow with a special place in my heart for alliteration.
> > > >>>> I've noticed some translations are unbearable to read because of lost
> > > >>>> flow. The title really caught my eye.
>
> > > >>>> WORD CRAFT: Found In Translation
>
> > > >>>> I have spent the last three years translating Homer's "Iliad," a
> > > >>>> project I began because none of the English translations on my
> > > >>>> bookshelf interested my ear enough to get past Book 1. Translating is
> > > >>>> a specialized kind of work, but in the most general sense, it is the
> > > >>>> art of listening. It has lessons for anyone who cares about the sound
> > > >>>> of their writing.
>
> > > >>>> With Homer, the first thing that I do is my homework, looking up the
> > > >>>> Greek words I don't know and studying the commentaries. I'm left with
> > > >>>> a bramble of possibilities handwritten on the right-hand page of my
> > > >>>> notebook and a blank page on the left.
>
> > > >>>> Below, for example, is a passage from the very beginning of the
> > > >>>> "Iliad." Apollo's priest has been offended by King Agamemnon and prays
> > > >>>> to the god to inflict disaster on the Greek army camped before Troy.
> > > >>>> Apollo strides down from Mount Olympus and starts shooting his plague
> > > >>>> arrows.
>
> > > >>>> Then he sat down apart from (opposite) the ships and shot (let fly) an
> > > >>>> arrow,
>
> > > >>>> and terrible was the twang from the silver bow.
>
> > > >>>> First he attacked the mules and the swift dogs,
>
> > > >>>> then he shot his sharp (piercing) arrows on the men themselves,
>
> > > >>>> and forever the pyres of the dead kept burning thick (close
> > > >>>> together).
>
> > > >>>> This is raw stuff, as any literal version must be, with no life in the
> > > >>>> language. At this point I begin to listen for the rhythm (a music that
> > > >>>> I hear before the words themselves come into focus in my ear), and
> > > >>>> line by line, sometimes after a minute, sometimes after 10—magically,
> > > >>>> it seems—the words begin to configure themselves, my hearing creates
> > > >>>> what I want to hear, the pen starts to write, and I am a fascinated
> > > >>>> witness.
>
> > > >>>> Here is my second draft:
>
> > > >>>> Then he dropped to one knee and an arrow flew,
>
> > > >>>> and a dreadful twang arose from the silver bow.
>
> > > >>>> First he attacked the mules and the flickering dogs,
>
> > > >>>> then he let fly his arrows on the men themselves.
>
> > > >>>> And night and day the pyres of the dead kept burning.
>
> > > >>>> Not bad, but the language is still quite awkward, the rhythm choppy,
> > > >>>> and it ends with a fizzle, not with the kind of commanding harmonic
> > > >>>> cadence I am listening for.
>
> > > >>>> The rest of the work, over the next few days or weeks, is a process of
> > > >>>> refining, of testing every word, every sound, against my sense of what
> > > >>>> Homer's music should sound like in English, an English that is rapid,
> > > >>>> direct and noble, as his Greek is. Sometimes it takes five or six
> > > >>>> drafts until my ear is satisfied, sometimes 30 or 40.
>
> > > >>>> Here is the passage in its final form:
>
> > > >>>> He dropped to one knee and drew back a deadly arrow,
>
> > > >>>> and a dreadful twang rang out from the silver bow.
>
> > > >>>> First he attacked the mules and the dogs, but soon
>
> > > >>>> he shifted his aim and struck down the men themselves.
>
> > > >>>> And the close-packed pyres of the dead kept burning, burning,
>
> > > >>>> beside the Achaean ships, all day and all night.
>
> > > >>>> I like the insistent sound of the d's in the first line here.
> > > >>>> "Dreadful twang" was good already, I thought, but "twang/rang" sounded
> > > >>>> even better. And the extra "burning," which I stumbled upon in the
> > > >>>> fourth draft, made my skin tingle.
>
> > > >>>> Before you finish a piece of your own writing, you might try reading
> > > >>>> it out loud or silently, paying attention just to the sound of the
> > > >>>> words. If you come to a phrase that doesn't sound quite right, let
> > > >>>> your ear, rather than your thinking, revise the line. You may be
> > > >>>> surprised by what you didn't know you knew.
>
> > > >>>> —Mr. Mitchell is a writer and translator whose many books include "Tao
> > > >>>> Te Ching," "The Book of Job" and "Gilgamesh." His translation of
> > > >>>> Homer's "Iliad" was published last month.
>
> > > >>>>http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405297020419070457702447079869...
>
> > > >> --
> > > >> Francis Hunt
>
> > > >> *francishunt.blogspot.com*
>
> > > --
> > > (
> > > )
> > > |_D Allan
>
> > > Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
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