Re: Mind's Eye Freewill - A useful myth?

i agree with Allan.. some time back.. i had a rather deterministic bent of mind.. but as i grow older.. i am convinced by the importance of 'free' choice.. i dont claim any in depth knowledge through experience.. but what iam trying to say that if taken in immediacy.. our actions are always free... that is why we are moral beings... and because of the question of ethics..it is important that each person know that their action is their alone... theirs is the burden of responsibility .. i agree many factors not individually controlled .. from the language and the social mores that condition us... And not to dispute cause and effect.... i think we are aware of the cause and effect in a rather reverse manner... when we have come to the effect do we look to see the cause.... it is because our lives are so tragically linear.... its the consequences first that we might see.... its only afetr having walked the distance that you mught say.. 'this was to be'... As far as religion goes... what i most appreciate is their proffessed detatchment from the outcome of action... which makes sense to me... i think that is why most religions stress on duty... mostly you come accross good old clasic literature... you can trace out a deterministic finality in the works... i dont know how one would deal with any 'truth' .... but i think the most for someone or yourself is make an informed choice... dont you think we might also allow for impulse under 'free' ..... guess the key thing is to be 'aware' in mind most of the time.. i dnt know where iam going with this.. so ill stop.

On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 3:57 AM, Allan H <allanh1946@gmail.com> wrote:

Free will is a reality..  the problem comes once you made your choice and the effects of the choice ,,  these results appear that you have no choice,,  you just mad it earlier.

Allan

On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 10:33 PM, malcymo <malcymo@gmail.com> wrote:

Humanity has always, for some reason, felt the need to support his
world view with a series of myths commonly termed beliefs in order to,
in some way, justify its behaviour. We must not, however, believe that
these myths are always spiritual or mystical in nature. Many are not.

The legitimacy of a myth depends on many features. Umberto Eco in his
excellent tome 'Foucault's Pendulum' quietly draws our attention to
the requirements needed for the creation of a robust myth and there is
no doubt that within most religious and philosophical beliefs the
required elements are found.

Secular myths, however, are somewhat harder to pin down. This may be
because they are founded little more than intuition. They are
therefore difficult to identify as myths in the first place. Also,
such myths can often serve a very useful purpose.

Let us take as an example the idea of freewill. The idea is so
embedded in our psych that most of us believe it to be a reality. Even
so, an in depth study soon reveals the fragility of the idea. So
fragile is it that philosophers have argued over the question of
determinism v free will for generations; time which could have been
more usefully employed on other ventures. Indeed some eminent
philosophers believe that free will and determinism can sit
legitimately together – the so called Such is the nature of a myth.

We can only suppose that such an idea must appear rational to us in
order to give it legitimacy. After all, our ideas of virtuous
behaviour, responsibility and justice are founded on the idea of free
will; that we are responsible for our actions and must accept our
responsibilities. Yet, there is no doubt that free will defies the
tenets embodied in modern physics, the idea of cause and effect. It
seems to be extremely difficult for us to accept that some things just
are.

I am interested in this dilemma because if we eventually discover, if
we have not already, that determinism is beyond dispute how should we
react? How could we possibly recreate our society to live with such a
'truth'?

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|_D Allan

Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.

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EverComing