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Gabby, I can only suggest that you step out of your bubble !
You wouldn't have to lock horns with me to find the voices of pain
and misery the world has heaped on people everywhere.
On Jan 26, 4:40 am, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The zeitgeist graph is already out there (http://www.gravity.com/), so
> that problem has been solved, Vam. What else do you have to criticize about
> the world?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 5:22 PM, Vam <atewari2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Thanks, Neil ! Perhaps, if you you were to read the piece again...
>
> > This is not a thread where one may enter because one feels good.
> > Watch The Devil's Advocate, especially the end. And think...
>
> > Much is already out there, regardless of what we might feel.
>
> > The point is to have something to say, for oneself, that coincides
> > with the collective. If it must not, then the banksters should be
> > fine !
>
> > On Jan 25, 8:45 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I would say, Vam, that you often jump in the water with an 'entourage'
> > > of assumptive baggage. I probably dislike citation more than you and
> > > am not the first. Veblen would be a good start (to use some rough
> > > citation). These days, you can at least Google the name. When I
> > > started it meant a trip to the library. Anyone who has the chance to
> > > read a lot of what's available (this is still remarkably few) should
> > > discover most of what they thought their own ideas have been done
> > > before. The idea is no doubt to try to 'stand on the shoulders of
> > > giants' (itself a wisecrack by Newton on Hooke's dwarfish stature).
> > > The 'giants' always turn out flawed. Moses is a war criminal in
> > > Numbers 31, the Greeks, for all their argument, never produced a
> > > decent one against slavery (the lunatic-religious John Brown being
> > > better). Many, because they don't read enough, attribute 'relativity'
> > > to Einstein, but it has a longer and wider history. The chattering
> > > class reinvents the square wheel all over the place.
>
> > > What if the best of our system is fascist and we have grown in such
> > > culture, or a caste system? By what processes do we get an
> > > understanding for change from such? Western propaganda would have us
> > > believe pouring resources into the gullets of the rich is sensible.
> > > We all live in the gutter. Only some of us lift our eyes to the
> > > stars. If only I was smart enough to have been first to that! (Oscar
> > > Wilde) A common jibe by academics is that common sense is that which
> > > allows us to believe the world is flat - yet flat-earth was an
> > > academic construction - one can actually see the curvature of the
> > > Earth.
>
> > > What we need is reliable collective memory. Given our capacity to
> > > pervert, citation is usually used in a highly selective manner,
> > > usually along with a core academic (religious etc.) narrative of
> > > exclusion of competing argument. Control of what is reliable memory
> > > is, of course, just what those in power want to maintain - perhaps
> > > through principles of Home and Vanity. I will always prefer the
> > > margins to this, remembering that to oppose tyranny can pervert into
> > > its support.
>
> > > Deconstruction is only a beginning. I believe its spirit concerns a
> > > defeat of madness that includes rationalist fantasy and animal
> > > consensus (which I sense as grasping, selfish individualism easy to
> > > rule).
>
> > > On Jan 25, 3:26 am, Vam <atewari2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > "Is this not an important part of the dynamic multidimensional mind
> > > > Vam, can you find nothing of value with meeting this view at least as
> > > > a challenge?"
>
> > > > James, starting with God is a bad idea. Perhaps, ending up at it is
> > > > what needs to happen. Dawkins was in Jaipur here and I found his view
> > > > a lot more balanced, less bigoted and militant.
>
> > > > And Neil is right : it must deal with morality. Where his discourse
> > > > runs dry is when he is quoting other people ! That is also my
> > > > compelling logic against intellectual property rights. What damned
> > > > "rights" on knowledge of any kind ? Or, why must we have to give
> > > > references, when all we wish to say is ours, with us ? If it's not
> > > > ours, for us to say, we should STFU !
>
> > > > The formal aspect of Truth or truths is onerous. There are libraries
> > > > out there where it goes dry. It is the informal one that I wish to put
> > > > across : it is mine... and for that reason should be everyone's, of
> > > > everything. And that ( informal aspect ) is... HOME. The search for
> > > > that place which is truly ours, where we can rest without fear, free
> > > > and fulfilled, which nothing in the whole universe can take away from
> > > > us. Truth is our Home.
>
> > > > This is no parable I've begun. People are spent for and on a " home "
> > > > for themselves. They build, buy, rent one for the body... house or
> > > > apartment, car or craft. But then the worst a-holes amongst us come to
> > > > believe that home they are so invested on is also the " home " to
> > > > their emotion, to their thought, their identity, and their happiness
> > > > too ! Well, it is and it definitely isn't.
>
> > > > The better ( a-hols ) take on a wife, friend, progeny or pet,
> > > > community or cause, to engage their emotion-thought-identity where,
> > > > with whom or which, one then feels at home. Of that our thought is
> > > > preoccupied... that same ' faculty ' that had been used to focus on
> > > > money to buy the home, on the value of food and worth of delicacies,
> > > > on the relevance of what is beneficial and serves our purposes and
> > > > what does not.
>
> > > > That pitch of ' acquisition,' value, worth, relevance... is also there
> > > > in our thought and eye, as in it pre-exists and is consciously or
> > > > subconsciously applied, for the home-objects of our emotion as well.
> > > > For a lifetime, we carry that pitch to manage, manipulate, decide and
> > > > deal with what is outside us to acquire the material home-object in
> > > > our aim ... a domain that, for all practical purposes, encompasses
> > > > everything. For everything, external and internal, is outside the
> > > > agency, the ego-person, we are through the pursuit after our aim.
>
> > > > What is concurrent within, inside of us - the "ego-person," is a build
> > > > up and an intensification of VANITY... which expresses as : " I
> > > > possess;" " I win;" " I will acquire;" " I am successful." It is all a
> > > > matter of process that is normal to our drive and inevitable to our
> > > > search. But, as surely as sure can be, it is Vanity that also blocks
> > > > our evolution and progression into the true Home to our emotion -
> > > > which is Love, to our thought - which is Silence, to our identity -
> > > > which is Zero, and to our spirit - which is Bliss Infinite. Because it
> > > > limits us to what we have, even as it automatically makes us pore over
> > > > all that we does not have; and, it is limiting because while with it
> > > > we can never give up that " pitch " we have internalised along the
> > > > journey and can hence never view and see things with Love and Silence,
> > > > and be Zero with Bliss Infinite.
>
> > > > These are the real aspects and issues to spirituality : Home and
> > > > Vanity. It is these that I find more pertinent than God or whatever.
> > > > It is these that will make us be better and excel, that will address
> > > > the monstrous twists with which people reduce the best of systems and
> > > > opportunities to gutter, that will redress the moral deficit in our
> > > > public and personal lives.
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