as I can see the money is going much like a version of TARP to
European banks. Somewhere in all this some mighty big crooks have had
the original cash and we should be chasing them.
I don't believe manufacturing can bring the jobs back though anything
is welcome. We need new thinking on work and reward - though in the
meantime we could introduce international service at decent wages to
soak up the young and unemployed.
On Feb 24, 1:08 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> What the banks did was lend money they didn't have - which perhaps
> weirdly isn't wrong in-itself - if the demand for loans for productive
> purpose is there then why not make the loans in due diligence - we all
> benefit from the increased productive capacity produced. The snag
> was fraud and the banks were clearly incapable of resisting this and
> bribed politicians of all kinds to deregulate (the UK is worse than
> the US on this) and allow massive leverage through fractional
> banking. This happened everywhere once the ball started to roll. It
> all works if most of the investment is sound - but there is no Black-
> Scoles equation behind any of this. The problem with leverage was
> well-known - the more fractional your capital (less of it in ratio
> with what you lend) the more likely you end up insolvent if anything
> goes wrong. A few bad deals screw up your whole company. This is the
> truth - the rest is fraudulent accounting.
> The idea stems from a business practice called 'discounting cashflow'
> - which is largely about talents story from the bible - you don't just
> bury your talents but employ them to purpose - good as far as it goes
> - but the ultimate source of 'talents' is the tax-payer and they
> started to deploy our talents without asking. Indeed this was a dodge
> used to goldsmiths who lent money on the basis of other people's gold
> kept in their vaults. Fine as long as you never hit trouble and have
> to hand over the gold (tax-payers' money). At the micro-level I can
> tell you about companies so dumb they didn't bank money overnight and
> thus missed the interest this gleans. But all this went beyond good
> housekeeping.
> The story would take a couple of pages to write even at this level -
> so I won't go on. At the heart if it banks were betting with out
> money - the question we should now ask is who should own them - and I
> don't just mean the ones we directly bailed out.
>
> On Feb 23, 12:29 pm, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Sounds right to me. It is the current economic strategy in the
> > Detroit region. Along with auto, there are medical, IT and
> > alternative energy (won't mention defense) technologies being
> > developed and manufactured. More and more of it. We have a long way
> > to go to come back but it has begun. going the distance will be the
> > challenge. A hall of fame basketball star for a mayor helps foster
> > that spirit.
>
> > On Feb 23, 2:49 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Am listening to the news, and have been thinking about china an apple and
> > > their claim saying they own the IPad name or what ever .. but I listen to
> > > a friend talk when he was employed by a chinese company was just how
> > > dishonest they were in all areas.. Actually this claim by china could
> > > possibly really show this dishonesty and the effect or fall out could be
> > > bringing back manufacturing to out countries.
>
> > > A manufacturing based economy can put the unemployed back to work. and the
> > > unemployed working and buying national made products would make for a
> > > healthy economy. I am probably saying this wrong.
> > > Allan
>
> > > On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 8:39 AM, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > I do think there is revolution in the air as people, some one is going to
> > > > overcome banking dilemma,, I do believe that the bail out is just how to
> > > > rip as much money out of Greece as possible,
> > > > Allan
>
> > > > On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 4:28 AM, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > >> Reminds me of an old Heavy Metal quote.
>
> > > >> "He's nothing but a low-down, double-dealing, backstabbing, larcenous
> > > >> perverted worm! Hanging's too good for him. Burning's too good for him! He
> > > >> should be torn into little bitsy pieces and buried alive!"
>
> > > >> -Hanover Fiste
>
> > > >> We share frustrations Neil. What little being done is either wrong or
> > > >> inadequate. You have a much broader understanding of the banking bail outs
> > > >> than I do. I resent having to bail them out as a tax payer while at the
> > > >> same time not being able to profit from buying property at a much
> > > >> discounted price because the bailouts are keeping prices up artificially.
> > > >> Seems there should be some reward to conservative investing when the shit
> > > >> hits the fan. Clearly; there isn't. Those folks that bought more then they
> > > >> could afford and borrowed more then they could afford shouldn't be bailed
> > > >> out. Those banks that loaned money to these people shouldn't be bailed out.
> > > >> I hate always being the one to pay the Piper exspecially when there are so
> > > >> damn many of them. Pipers I mean. Hell, I didn't even book the show!
>
> > > >> dj
>
> > > >> On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 7:43 PM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > >>> We'd pay you to take Maggie Don! What I can't take is the shallow
> > > >>> reporting. We get turkeys telling us the stock market is up on 'good
> > > >>> news', down on 'bad news' and no mention that central banks doubled
> > > >>> 'money' in five years and have done it again in the last four - god
> > > >>> knows what stock is really worth if we deflate it against all this
> > > >>> printing. We're told the Greeks are getting £130 billion but really
> > > >>> this is another bank bailout. What gets me really pissed Don is there
> > > >>> is no talk of working our way out of it or where the massive
> > > >>> productivity gains have gone. Orn said something ages ago about how
> > > >>> loads of decent paying jobs were around when we were younger. The
> > > >>> basic problem is they've gone.
> > > >>> In old calculations we used to reckon the public sector should be
> > > >>> about 40% of the economy - but productivity on farms and in
> > > >>> manufacturing has risen massively - enough to service more health
> > > >>> care, education and the rest. I don't really care who runs what - if
> > > >>> there's genuine competition and protection of quality of work life the
> > > >>> private sector is best. We're better at doing more or less everything
> > > >>> these days so why's it all turned so sour? I expected my kids to have
> > > >>> things better than me - but in the main they haven't. I don't really
> > > >>> do politics as Labour-Tory Democrat-GOP seems meaningless. Our
> > > >>> Liberals are sharing power now - they looked OK until they were part
> > > >>> of government and now look standard turds.
> > > >>> I saw a nutter on your side of the pond blasting welfare - he was so
> > > >>> dumb he didn't realise his kids were signed up for free meals and he
> > > >>> gets several thousand in tax credits! We need a New Deal - and also
> > > >>> to remember even that didn't end the depression. I remember when
> > > >>> human resource management meant ensuring your firm's pay and
> > > >>> conditions were the best to attract the right labour - now it's all
> > > >>> bull to cover up dire conditions.
> > > >>> One thing in the Greek situation is that their bonds are supposedly
> > > >>> insured by Credit Derivative Swaps - but everyone thinks if they do
> > > >>> try this switch we'll discover there is no insurance and the system
> > > >>> will collapse. Selling dud insurance is a crime. I'd like to see
> > > >>> some arrests. I regard sending our production to China and the like
> > > >>> as tantamount to 'selling whiskey and guns to the Indians'. Hanging
> > > >>> some traitors would be a GOOD START!
>
> > > >>> On Feb 21, 3:42 am, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >>> > It's a Catch-22 situation. No solution looks good to me they're all
> > > >>> pretty
> > > >>> > sucky. At this point it's the on going never ending uncertainty that's
> > > >>> > making me nervous more then anything. I wish we could pick a solution
> > > >>> > that's not too terribly drastic and then commit. To me that means raise
> > > >>> > taxes on us all; including the have-nots in our respective well-to-do
> > > >>> > countries. I mean raise taxes and cut spending on the big offenders.
> > > >>> Social
> > > >>> > programs. Welfare. The up-coming Obama-Care. We do all that and reform
> > > >>> > Medicaid and Medicare and it will be messy; it will be hard and people
> > > >>> that
> > > >>> > don't deserve it will suffer. But. But a lot less people will be
> > > >>> raping the
> > > >>> > System. The Rich will pay more and the more reasonable among them won't
> > > >>> > mind as much because they'll be seeing the rest of us huddled masses
> > > >>> paying
> > > >>> > as well. We are going to have to pass a Consumption Tax in this
> > > >>> country. I
> > > >>> > hate it but we have to. It's the only way to start paying down this
> > > >>> > ridiculous debt the last two presidents have saddled us with. I would
> > > >>> never
> > > >>> > agree to it unless it's combined with rock-solid cuts in entitlements.
> > > >>> Not
> > > >>> > BS crap promises of debt 'ceilings' that always get raised.
>
> > > >>> > I have zero faith in this Congress and very little hope for the next
> > > >>> one.
> > > >>> > I'm disappointed in my available choices for the next Pres. Send us
> > > >>> Maggie
> > > >>> > Thatcher please. Or someone very like her.
>
> > > >>> > dj
>
> > > >>> > On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 10:30 AM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >>> > > Bankruptcy laws are a-changing Don. Student loans can't be written-
> > > >>> > > off in a court anymore, and when the looters hollow-out a company,
> > > >>> the
> > > >>> > > banks get posted to the top of the recipient list in administration
> > > >>> > > ahead of mugs like us who thought we might see a return. Bankruptcy
> > > >>> > > at this level is complex because derivatives play a role. We don't
> > > >>> > > know who really holds Greek debt or whether that held by the City of
> > > >>> > > London is gold or guano. These debts are supposedly insured - but
> > > >>> > > instead of that meaning a payout as from a car crash, it seems to
>
> ...
>
> read more »
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