Moodys is just the distraction trying to hide the poverty within the United States
Allan
On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 5:28 AM, archytas <nwterry@gmail.com> wrote:
US debt/GDP hit 101% today - and one of the interesting things is
China and Russia are no longer buying US paper - weirdly it's Japan
and the UK - the two most heavily indebted countries in the world.
Given how shafted our economies are, how can we afford to be investing
in the US?
> ...
On Feb 22, 1:43 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> We'd pay you to take Maggie Don! What I can't take is the shallow
> reporting. We get turkeys telling us the stock market is up on 'good
> news', down on 'bad news' and no mention that central banks doubled
> 'money' in five years and have done it again in the last four - god
> knows what stock is really worth if we deflate it against all this
> printing. We're told the Greeks are getting £130 billion but really
> this is another bank bailout. What gets me really pissed Don is there
> is no talk of working our way out of it or where the massive
> productivity gains have gone. Orn said something ages ago about how
> loads of decent paying jobs were around when we were younger. The
> basic problem is they've gone.
> In old calculations we used to reckon the public sector should be
> about 40% of the economy - but productivity on farms and in
> manufacturing has risen massively - enough to service more health
> care, education and the rest. I don't really care who runs what - if
> there's genuine competition and protection of quality of work life the
> private sector is best. We're better at doing more or less everything
> these days so why's it all turned so sour? I expected my kids to have
> things better than me - but in the main they haven't. I don't really
> do politics as Labour-Tory Democrat-GOP seems meaningless. Our
> Liberals are sharing power now - they looked OK until they were part
> of government and now look standard turds.
> I saw a nutter on your side of the pond blasting welfare - he was so
> dumb he didn't realise his kids were signed up for free meals and he
> gets several thousand in tax credits! We need a New Deal - and also
> to remember even that didn't end the depression. I remember when
> human resource management meant ensuring your firm's pay and
> conditions were the best to attract the right labour - now it's all
> bull to cover up dire conditions.
> One thing in the Greek situation is that their bonds are supposedly
> insured by Credit Derivative Swaps - but everyone thinks if they do
> try this switch we'll discover there is no insurance and the system
> will collapse. Selling dud insurance is a crime. I'd like to see
> some arrests. I regard sending our production to China and the like
> as tantamount to 'selling whiskey and guns to the Indians'. Hanging
> some traitors would be a GOOD START!
>
> On Feb 21, 3:42 am, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
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> > It's a Catch-22 situation. No solution looks good to me they're all pretty
> > sucky. At this point it's the on going never ending uncertainty that's
> > making me nervous more then anything. I wish we could pick a solution
> > that's not too terribly drastic and then commit. To me that means raise
> > taxes on us all; including the have-nots in our respective well-to-do
> > countries. I mean raise taxes and cut spending on the big offenders. Social
> > programs. Welfare. The up-coming Obama-Care. We do all that and reform
> > Medicaid and Medicare and it will be messy; it will be hard and people that
> > don't deserve it will suffer. But. But a lot less people will be raping the
> > System. The Rich will pay more and the more reasonable among them won't
> > mind as much because they'll be seeing the rest of us huddled masses paying
> > as well. We are going to have to pass a Consumption Tax in this country. I
> > hate it but we have to. It's the only way to start paying down this
> > ridiculous debt the last two presidents have saddled us with. I would never
> > agree to it unless it's combined with rock-solid cuts in entitlements. Not
> > BS crap promises of debt 'ceilings' that always get raised.
>
> > I have zero faith in this Congress and very little hope for the next one.
> > I'm disappointed in my available choices for the next Pres. Send us Maggie
> > Thatcher please. Or someone very like her.
>
> > dj
>
> > On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 10:30 AM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Bankruptcy laws are a-changing Don. Student loans can't be written-
> > > off in a court anymore, and when the looters hollow-out a company, the
> > > banks get posted to the top of the recipient list in administration
> > > ahead of mugs like us who thought we might see a return. Bankruptcy
> > > at this level is complex because derivatives play a role. We don't
> > > know who really holds Greek debt or whether that held by the City of
> > > London is gold or guano. These debts are supposedly insured - but
> > > instead of that meaning a payout as from a car crash, it seems to mean
> > > a wad of claims because of all the derivative bets on the failure
> > > (2008 repeat in spades). In the UK's case we need to know whether the
> > > debts or banks created are investment assets or donkey-droppings. You
> > > and I could have a few million in debt but wouldn't care if this was
> > > because we'd borrowed to buy into a productive gold mine. Rather
> > > than bankruptcy what's needed is to mark assets (which may be debts on
> > > a bank balance sheet) to market - currently much is marked to models
> > > that may be completely fictitious.
> > > What we've seen so far is that tax payers hold the baby. QEs and the
> > > rest mean money we saved for pensions is both worth less and can
> > > demand lower annuities because the return on gilts (Treasury bonds) is
> > > kept down. Greece would already be bankrupt if just their money was
> > > involved - this will turn out to be leveraged many times over through
> > > derivatives. real bankruptcy would hit the bond holders and this is
> > > what we should do, along with a return to primitive banking.
>
> > > On Feb 19, 4:05 am, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Are you familiar with our Bankruptcy laws Neil? I would hope your country
> > > > and possibly Greece has something similar. IF not maybe that's the
> > > answer.
> > > > Too Big To Fail isn't working out so well.
>
> > > > dj
>
> > > > On Sat, Feb 18, 2012 at 6:03 PM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > >http://www.zerohedge.com/news/guest-post-when-debt-more-important-peo.
> > > ..
> > > > > This is the moral argument as I see it.
>
> > > > > On Feb 17, 4:17 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > Whatever we say in respect of these problems we tend to imagine false
> > > > > > hopes without dealing with them. Can we really imagine, given
> > > > > > history, that a bunch of bureaucrats making decisions must be better
> > > > > > than a business approach, that the public sector must be better than
> > > > > > private enterprise or any of the reverses? State capitalism is a big
> > > > > > thing and doing at least as well as private conglomerates (see the
> > > > > > current Economist). These ideologies have much in common and a
> > > > > > notable lack of common control and have rich and powerful people
> > > > > > running them.
> > > > > > I suspect the Greeks need the same help as the rest of us - a new
> > > work-
> > > > > > reward ethic of a living wage from all jobs and finance as a utility.
> > > > > > This apparently modest statement is "revolutionary".
>
> > > > > > On Feb 17, 3:06 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > I'm not sure science does move so slowly Vam - but I certainly feel
> > > > > > > the same frustration. Perhaps the most amazing thing in the
> > > current
> > > > > > > 'debate' on economic plight is that the obvious issue is that a
> > > tiny
> > > > > > > rich hold ever increasing bags of swag whilst blaming everyone else
> > > > > > > for the lack of money! This has been particularly true in Greece.
> > > > > > > There's a good argument that capital is currently idle - companies
> > > > > > > are sitting on much more cash than usual.
> > > > > > > On Vam's point on science being too slow I'd take the view that the
> > > > > > > problem is most people can't cope with its world-view, and deep in
> > > > > > > that are issues that people can't cope with more than one, conflate
> > > > > > > this with individuality and protect it at all costs. The despair
> > > for
> > > > > > > me is that I see all kinds of iniquity and there is rarely much I
> > > can
> > > > > > > do. My sense of this is that we fail to address power issues at
> > > all
> > > > > > > levels and these would be key to real change. What we should be
> > > > > > > looking for is a system of free people who can organise their work
> > > for
> > > > > > > what is needed and this is a moral issue of legitimation.
> > > > > > > What I would look at in the first place are those work systems in
> > > > > > > which nearly all the participants cannot work their way to decent,
> > > > > > > self-sustaining community. Examples would include Indian rural
> > > > > > > farming where the only 'way out' is suicide (a quarter of a
> > > million in
> > > > > > > ten years), Gary Indiana and swathes of unemployment everywhere. I
> > > > > > > cannot believe wages have to be linked to an endless and immoral
> > > > > > > search to doing them down for the purpose of competitive advantage
> > > -
> > > > > > > or that consumption is any kind of model for economics when the
> > > planet
> > > > > > > can't take it. The body can't take it either when on looks at how
> > > > > > > unhealthy we get.
>
> > > > > > > What the rich are currently doing is seeking ownership of real
> > > assets
> > > > > > > in order to rent them out to the rest of us. The model is
> > > ostensibly
> > > > > > > more complex than money-lending in rural India, but actually much
> > > the
> > > > > > > same. The Greeks are supposed to put up with foreign ownership of
> > > > > > > their soil and then work their way out of the mess - a clear case
> > > of
> > > > > > > economics as war by other means.
>
> > > > > > > Any analysis will show that liquidity has been taken out of our
> > > > > > > communities (not long ago the bottom half of UK and US people had
> > > 14%
> > > > > > > of liquid assets we can think of as cash - this is down to 1%) and
> > > > > > > wages have spiralled down - without welfare
>
>
> read more »
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|_D Allan
Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
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