Allan
--
(
On Fri, Feb 3, 2012 at 2:32 AM, James Lynch <ashkashal@gmail.com> wrote:
I certainly hope it will clear up soon, the doc thinks it is because
of my inner ear. Haven't felt like this since highschool, sustained
disorientation for several days that is. O.@ With self discipline I've
learned to control the nausea a bit but learned that driving with
someone talking loudly I cannot manage so well.. Thanks for asking. :)
On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 1:55 AM, Allan H <allanh1946@gmail.com> wrote:
> R U OK James?
> Allan
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 2:07 AM, James Lynch <ashkashal@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Oops, wrong thread! Ringing head, dizziness, and nausea are starting
>> to bug me, distracting too. Enough already. Be well everyone. :)
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 7:04 PM, James Lynch <ashkashal@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > If you don't think your students pick up on a slight hesitation or
>> > unconscious facial signal that a theory is bunk I think you are
>> > selling yourself short Neil. We are in a rapidly changing world, but
>> > some things haven't, conscience for example, you have the haves and
>> > have-nots. I think there is compelling evidence that we could live
>> > more fulfilling lives in the service to mankind, but when faced with
>> > the decision to sink or float/soar many are doing what they think is
>> > necessary even if it is rotting at the core of civilisation. We will
>> > craft our beliefs of right and wrong to fit the world we know, mostly
>> > I think. Identity and seeing oneself in the mirror helps but requires
>> > more than a single image as we need comparisons, it would help to say
>> > hey something else would work and people are doing it. A new labor
>> > class perhaps, philosophically motivated?
>> >
>> >
>> > On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 6:40 PM, archytas <nwterry@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> I think we are always stuck in an irrational situation, generally the
>> >> makings of others. Science makes some kind of clearing for
>> >> rationality and inventiveness. Heidegger opined on clearings as being
>> >> amongst the real things of the world rather than facing them in
>> >> thought 'where the backs were missing, but that didn't help him see
>> >> the Nazis for what they were. One can probably "curl up" by taking
>> >> action - as a cop in a pub brawl or whatever our countries ask of us
>> >> as soldiers, our societies of mothers and so on. I've found myself
>> >> coping in action fully aware of its ludicrous nature and wondering if
>> >> there is any freedom from it other than that given by adrenaline and
>> >> the steel put in in training to do the noxious.
>> >> There's a strange rationale that we somehow have to do what's right in
>> >> what is already an irrational mess and act as though rational against
>> >> some bigger picture that we are the good guys - a view unseated
>> >> everywhere by realistic history. The question for me is whether we
>> >> can do much with our knowledge in a world in which few will give up on
>> >> the comfort of knowing very little.
>> >>
>> >> On Feb 1, 11:50 am, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >>> Also- I think if we really knew the consequences of our acts and
>> >>> choices we might just curl up into a ball and do nothing. One friend
>> >>> and I chuckle that we're all pretty much on an assembly line...
>> >>>
>> >>> On Feb 1, 5:27 am, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> > Just to clarify my thought- that luck and timing can be good, bad or
>> >>> > indifferent. Also rather than active thinking being a debate, it is
>> >>> > more like selection. Literature and social sciences deal with
>> >>> > layered
>> >>> > communication- for instance, withholding facts, feelings or motives.
>> >>> > It is often called discretion. :-) How do you mean "identity"?
>> >>>
>> >>> > On Jan 31, 11:09 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> > > The 'making sense of things later' seems true even in the split
>> >>> > > second
>> >>> > > in brain research. I regard all strategy as retrospectively
>> >>> > > devised!
>> >>> > > There's a book just out by Hill and Myatt (economists) on just how
>> >>> > > facile economics teaching is in universities - but this contains
>> >>> > > nothing on how this has happened. Some of this seems to me
>> >>> > > connected
>> >>> > > with a lack of movement beyond identity Molly.
>> >>>
>> >>> > > On Jan 31, 1:30 pm, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> > > > Part of human nature is to identify with people, thoughts, ideas
>> >>> > > > around us. Being able to witness your identification, and
>> >>> > > > moving
>> >>> > > > beyond it is the real treasure.
>> >>>
>> >>> > > > On Jan 29, 9:10 pm, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> > > > > Molly your question has my mind running around its dust bins.
>> >>> > > > > Most my
>> >>> > > > > thoughts are not original but more composites of other ideas.
>> >>> > > > > They are like
>> >>> > > > > hand me downs,, like the 3D image comes from watching how
>> >>> > > > > people search
>> >>> > > > > for treasure on sunken vessels, it is rags from a different
>> >>> > > > > ?idea?.
>> >>>
>> >>> > > > > My world is a world of rags in the form of other ideas.
>> >>> > > > > Allan
>> >>> > > > > On Jan 29, 2012 8:21 PM, "Allan H" <allanh1...@gmail.com>
>> >>> > > > > wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> > > > > > Yeah it is kind of like an old dog sappen on his favorite
>> >>> > > > > > bone.
>> >>>
>> >>> > > > > > it is trying to understand others, and what I have
>> >>> > > > > > experienced As I have
>> >>> > > > > > very few friends that like discussing God I talk to myself
>> >>> > > > > > a lot..which is
>> >>> > > > > > no problem as I am never really alone,.
>> >>> > > > > > Allan
>> >>>
>> >>> > > > > > On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 3:05 PM, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com>
>> >>> > > > > > wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> > > > > >> Not at all irrelevant. did you have more thoughts about
>> >>> > > > > >> this?
>> >>>
>> >>> > > > > >> On Jan 28, 10:19 am, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>> > > > > >> > Hi Mol&Rigs, listening to you two I've been asking myself
>> >>> > > > > >> > why none of
>> >>> > > > > >> > you mentions Jung and his description of the collective
>> >>> > > > > >> > unconscious. I
>> >>> > > > > >> > haven't read the Red Book yet, but maybe of of you has
>> >>> > > > > >> > and could tell
>> >>> > > > > >> > me why this is irrelevant to what you are discussing.
>> >>>
>> >>> > > > > >> > On Jan 27, 2:35 pm, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> > > > > >> > > The paramount paradox.
>> >>>
>> >>> > > > > >> > > On Jan 27, 8:21 am, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > Yes- I've read a lot of Campbell and admire his
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > efforts. In fact, I
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > was going to put the Oriental Mythology of his Masks
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > of God series
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > aside to reread- Indian, Chinese and Japanese
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > chapters. I wish I
>> >>> > > > > >> could
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > keep certain studies on top of my thinking but maybe
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > I have read so
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > much there is a chute to forgetfulness or a pit of
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > scrambled
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > ideas! :-) Oh, dear!
>> >>>
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > However, back to your comment about looking
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > back/within. I consider
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > there is impossible split between the spiritual and
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > material and yet
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > that is our struggle to bridge- if possible.
>> >>>
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > On Jan 27, 6:32 am, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com>
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > Do myths disappear? Joseph Campbell mapped common
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > human myth
>> >>> > > > > >> around
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > the word and through time to discover a mechanism
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > something close
>> >>> > > > > >> to
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > common memory - the expression of the same
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > archetypes in real
>> >>> > > > > >> time,
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > isolated incidents around the globe and at the same
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > time. This
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > phenomena has occurred throughout human history.
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > This may tell us
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > that it is not the looking back that is important,
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > but as Vam
>> >>> > > > > >> says,
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > looking within.
>> >>>
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > On Jan 26, 5:54 am, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com>
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > What is original? I might argue that one is
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > simply explicating
>> >>> > > > > >> what
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > already exists.
>> >>>
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > Each generation assumes it has a distinct
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > character- or needs
>> >>> > > > > >> to prove
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > that it has.
>> >>>
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > Was thinking the reason myths disappear is
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > because they were
>> >>> > > > > >> oral and
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > native languages are usually suppressed by the
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > conquerors. One
>> >>> > > > > >> also
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > carries family myths- which interfere with deep
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > communication.
>> >>>
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > Yes- there are terrible inequities- all the more
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > scandalous
>> >>> > > > > >> because
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > there really is plenty to go around so the root
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > is greed and
>> >>> > > > > >> distain
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > for others. Governments only pretend to care for
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > all its
>> >>> > > > > >> citizens- it
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > picks and chooses.
>> >>>
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > We passed the Gilded Age- I would call this the
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > Tinsel Age.
>> >>>
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > On Jan 25, 9:45 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com>
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > I would say, Vam, that you often jump in the
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > water with an
>> >>> > > > > >> 'entourage'
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > of assumptive baggage. I probably dislike
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > citation more than
>> >>> > > > > >> you and
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > am not the first. Veblen would be a good start
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > (to use some
>> >>> > > > > >> rough
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > citation). These days, you can at least Google
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > the name.
>> >>> > > > > >> When I
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > started it meant a trip to the library. Anyone
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > who has the
>> >>> > > > > >> chance to
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > read a lot of what's available (this is still
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > remarkably few)
>> >>> > > > > >> should
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > discover most of what they thought their own
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > ideas have been
>> >>> > > > > >> done
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > before. The idea is no doubt to try to 'stand
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > on the
>> >>> > > > > >> shoulders of
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > giants' (itself a wisecrack by Newton on
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > Hooke's dwarfish
>> >>> > > > > >> stature).
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > The 'giants' always turn out flawed. Moses is
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > a war criminal
>> >>> > > > > >> in
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > Numbers 31, the Greeks, for all their argument,
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > never
>> >>> > > > > >> produced a
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > decent one against slavery (the
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > lunatic-religious John Brown
>> >>> > > > > >> being
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > better). Many, because they don't read enough,
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > attribute
>> >>> > > > > >> 'relativity'
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > to Einstein, but it has a longer and wider
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > history. The
>> >>> > > > > >> chattering
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > class reinvents the square wheel all over the
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > place.
>> >>>
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > What if the best of our system is fascist and
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > we have grown
>> >>> > > > > >> in such
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > culture, or a caste system? By what processes
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > do we get an
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > understanding for change from such? Western
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > propaganda would
>> >>> > > > > >> have us
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > believe pouring resources into the gullets of
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > the rich is
>> >>> > > > > >> sensible.
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > We all live in the gutter. Only some of us
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > lift our eyes to
>> >>> > > > > >> the
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > stars. If only I was smart enough to have been
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > first to
>> >>> > > > > >> that! (Oscar
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > Wilde) A common jibe by academics is that
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > common sense is
>> >>> > > > > >> that which
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > allows us to believe the world is flat - yet
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > flat-earth was an
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > academic construction - one can actually see
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > the curvature of
>> >>> > > > > >> the
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > Earth.
>> >>>
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > What we need is reliable collective memory.
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > Given our
>> >>> > > > > >> capacity to
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > pervert, citation is usually used in a highly
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > selective
>> >>> > > > > >> manner,
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > usually along with a core academic (religious
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > etc.) narrative
>> >>> > > > > >> of
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > exclusion of competing argument. Control of
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > what is reliable
>> >>> > > > > >> memory
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > is, of course, just what those in power want to
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > maintain -
>> >>> > > > > >> perhaps
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > through principles of Home and Vanity. I will
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > always prefer
>> >>> > > > > >> the
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > margins to this, remembering that to oppose
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > tyranny can
>> >>> > > > > >> pervert into
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > its support.
>> >>>
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > Deconstruction is only a beginning. I believe
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > its spirit
>> >>> > > > > >> concerns a
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > defeat of madness that includes rationalist
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > fantasy and animal
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > consensus (which I sense as grasping, selfish
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > individualism
>> >>> > > > > >> easy to
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > rule).
>> >>>
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > On Jan 25, 3:26 am, Vam <atewari2...@gmail.com>
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > > "Is this not an important part of the
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > > dynamic
>> >>> > > > > >> multidimensional mind
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > > Vam, can you find nothing of value with
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > > meeting this view
>> >>> > > > > >> at least as
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > > a challenge?"
>> >>>
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > > James, starting with God is a bad idea.
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > > Perhaps, ending up
>> >>> > > > > >> at it is
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > > what needs to happen. Dawkins was in Jaipur
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > > here and I
>> >>> > > > > >> found his view
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > > a lot more balanced, less bigoted and
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > > militant.
>> >>>
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > > And Neil is right : it must deal with
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > > morality. Where his
>> >>> > > > > >> discourse
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > > runs dry is when he is quoting other people !
>> >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > > That is also
>> >>> > > > > >> my
>> >>>
>> >>> ...
>> >>>
>> >>> read more »
>
>
>
>
> --
> (
> )
> |_D Allan
>
> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>
>
>
(
)
|_D Allan
Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
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