makings of others. Science makes some kind of clearing for
rationality and inventiveness. Heidegger opined on clearings as being
amongst the real things of the world rather than facing them in
thought 'where the backs were missing, but that didn't help him see
the Nazis for what they were. One can probably "curl up" by taking
action - as a cop in a pub brawl or whatever our countries ask of us
as soldiers, our societies of mothers and so on. I've found myself
coping in action fully aware of its ludicrous nature and wondering if
there is any freedom from it other than that given by adrenaline and
the steel put in in training to do the noxious.
There's a strange rationale that we somehow have to do what's right in
what is already an irrational mess and act as though rational against
some bigger picture that we are the good guys - a view unseated
everywhere by realistic history. The question for me is whether we
can do much with our knowledge in a world in which few will give up on
the comfort of knowing very little.
On Feb 1, 11:50 am, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Also- I think if we really knew the consequences of our acts and
> choices we might just curl up into a ball and do nothing. One friend
> and I chuckle that we're all pretty much on an assembly line...
>
> On Feb 1, 5:27 am, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Just to clarify my thought- that luck and timing can be good, bad or
> > indifferent. Also rather than active thinking being a debate, it is
> > more like selection. Literature and social sciences deal with layered
> > communication- for instance, withholding facts, feelings or motives.
> > It is often called discretion. :-) How do you mean "identity"?
>
> > On Jan 31, 11:09 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > The 'making sense of things later' seems true even in the split second
> > > in brain research. I regard all strategy as retrospectively devised!
> > > There's a book just out by Hill and Myatt (economists) on just how
> > > facile economics teaching is in universities - but this contains
> > > nothing on how this has happened. Some of this seems to me connected
> > > with a lack of movement beyond identity Molly.
>
> > > On Jan 31, 1:30 pm, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Part of human nature is to identify with people, thoughts, ideas
> > > > around us. Being able to witness your identification, and moving
> > > > beyond it is the real treasure.
>
> > > > On Jan 29, 9:10 pm, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > Molly your question has my mind running around its dust bins. Most my
> > > > > thoughts are not original but more composites of other ideas. They are like
> > > > > hand me downs,, like the 3D image comes from watching how people search
> > > > > for treasure on sunken vessels, it is rags from a different ?idea?.
>
> > > > > My world is a world of rags in the form of other ideas.
> > > > > Allan
> > > > > On Jan 29, 2012 8:21 PM, "Allan H" <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > Yeah it is kind of like an old dog sappen on his favorite bone.
>
> > > > > > it is trying to understand others, and what I have experienced As I have
> > > > > > very few friends that like discussing God I talk to myself a lot..which is
> > > > > > no problem as I am never really alone,.
> > > > > > Allan
>
> > > > > > On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 3:05 PM, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > >> Not at all irrelevant. did you have more thoughts about this?
>
> > > > > >> On Jan 28, 10:19 am, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > >> > Hi Mol&Rigs, listening to you two I've been asking myself why none of
> > > > > >> > you mentions Jung and his description of the collective unconscious. I
> > > > > >> > haven't read the Red Book yet, but maybe of of you has and could tell
> > > > > >> > me why this is irrelevant to what you are discussing.
>
> > > > > >> > On Jan 27, 2:35 pm, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > >> > > The paramount paradox.
>
> > > > > >> > > On Jan 27, 8:21 am, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > >> > > > Yes- I've read a lot of Campbell and admire his efforts. In fact, I
> > > > > >> > > > was going to put the Oriental Mythology of his Masks of God series
> > > > > >> > > > aside to reread- Indian, Chinese and Japanese chapters. I wish I
> > > > > >> could
> > > > > >> > > > keep certain studies on top of my thinking but maybe I have read so
> > > > > >> > > > much there is a chute to forgetfulness or a pit of scrambled
> > > > > >> > > > ideas! :-) Oh, dear!
>
> > > > > >> > > > However, back to your comment about looking back/within. I consider
> > > > > >> > > > there is impossible split between the spiritual and material and yet
> > > > > >> > > > that is our struggle to bridge- if possible.
>
> > > > > >> > > > On Jan 27, 6:32 am, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > >> > > > > Do myths disappear? Joseph Campbell mapped common human myth
> > > > > >> around
> > > > > >> > > > > the word and through time to discover a mechanism something close
> > > > > >> to
> > > > > >> > > > > common memory - the expression of the same archetypes in real
> > > > > >> time,
> > > > > >> > > > > isolated incidents around the globe and at the same time. This
> > > > > >> > > > > phenomena has occurred throughout human history. This may tell us
> > > > > >> > > > > that it is not the looking back that is important, but as Vam
> > > > > >> says,
> > > > > >> > > > > looking within.
>
> > > > > >> > > > > On Jan 26, 5:54 am, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > >> > > > > > What is original? I might argue that one is simply explicating
> > > > > >> what
> > > > > >> > > > > > already exists.
>
> > > > > >> > > > > > Each generation assumes it has a distinct character- or needs
> > > > > >> to prove
> > > > > >> > > > > > that it has.
>
> > > > > >> > > > > > Was thinking the reason myths disappear is because they were
> > > > > >> oral and
> > > > > >> > > > > > native languages are usually suppressed by the conquerors. One
> > > > > >> also
> > > > > >> > > > > > carries family myths- which interfere with deep communication.
>
> > > > > >> > > > > > Yes- there are terrible inequities- all the more scandalous
> > > > > >> because
> > > > > >> > > > > > there really is plenty to go around so the root is greed and
> > > > > >> distain
> > > > > >> > > > > > for others. Governments only pretend to care for all its
> > > > > >> citizens- it
> > > > > >> > > > > > picks and chooses.
>
> > > > > >> > > > > > We passed the Gilded Age- I would call this the Tinsel Age.
>
> > > > > >> > > > > > On Jan 25, 9:45 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > I would say, Vam, that you often jump in the water with an
> > > > > >> 'entourage'
> > > > > >> > > > > > > of assumptive baggage. I probably dislike citation more than
> > > > > >> you and
> > > > > >> > > > > > > am not the first. Veblen would be a good start (to use some
> > > > > >> rough
> > > > > >> > > > > > > citation). These days, you can at least Google the name.
> > > > > >> When I
> > > > > >> > > > > > > started it meant a trip to the library. Anyone who has the
> > > > > >> chance to
> > > > > >> > > > > > > read a lot of what's available (this is still remarkably few)
> > > > > >> should
> > > > > >> > > > > > > discover most of what they thought their own ideas have been
> > > > > >> done
> > > > > >> > > > > > > before. The idea is no doubt to try to 'stand on the
> > > > > >> shoulders of
> > > > > >> > > > > > > giants' (itself a wisecrack by Newton on Hooke's dwarfish
> > > > > >> stature).
> > > > > >> > > > > > > The 'giants' always turn out flawed. Moses is a war criminal
> > > > > >> in
> > > > > >> > > > > > > Numbers 31, the Greeks, for all their argument, never
> > > > > >> produced a
> > > > > >> > > > > > > decent one against slavery (the lunatic-religious John Brown
> > > > > >> being
> > > > > >> > > > > > > better). Many, because they don't read enough, attribute
> > > > > >> 'relativity'
> > > > > >> > > > > > > to Einstein, but it has a longer and wider history. The
> > > > > >> chattering
> > > > > >> > > > > > > class reinvents the square wheel all over the place.
>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > What if the best of our system is fascist and we have grown
> > > > > >> in such
> > > > > >> > > > > > > culture, or a caste system? By what processes do we get an
> > > > > >> > > > > > > understanding for change from such? Western propaganda would
> > > > > >> have us
> > > > > >> > > > > > > believe pouring resources into the gullets of the rich is
> > > > > >> sensible.
> > > > > >> > > > > > > We all live in the gutter. Only some of us lift our eyes to
> > > > > >> the
> > > > > >> > > > > > > stars. If only I was smart enough to have been first to
> > > > > >> that! (Oscar
> > > > > >> > > > > > > Wilde) A common jibe by academics is that common sense is
> > > > > >> that which
> > > > > >> > > > > > > allows us to believe the world is flat - yet flat-earth was an
> > > > > >> > > > > > > academic construction - one can actually see the curvature of
> > > > > >> the
> > > > > >> > > > > > > Earth.
>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > What we need is reliable collective memory. Given our
> > > > > >> capacity to
> > > > > >> > > > > > > pervert, citation is usually used in a highly selective
> > > > > >> manner,
> > > > > >> > > > > > > usually along with a core academic (religious etc.) narrative
> > > > > >> of
> > > > > >> > > > > > > exclusion of competing argument. Control of what is reliable
> > > > > >> memory
> > > > > >> > > > > > > is, of course, just what those in power want to maintain -
> > > > > >> perhaps
> > > > > >> > > > > > > through principles of Home and Vanity. I will always prefer
> > > > > >> the
> > > > > >> > > > > > > margins to this, remembering that to oppose tyranny can
> > > > > >> pervert into
> > > > > >> > > > > > > its support.
>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > Deconstruction is only a beginning. I believe its spirit
> > > > > >> concerns a
> > > > > >> > > > > > > defeat of madness that includes rationalist fantasy and animal
> > > > > >> > > > > > > consensus (which I sense as grasping, selfish individualism
> > > > > >> easy to
> > > > > >> > > > > > > rule).
>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > On Jan 25, 3:26 am, Vam <atewari2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > "Is this not an important part of the dynamic
> > > > > >> multidimensional mind
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > Vam, can you find nothing of value with meeting this view
> > > > > >> at least as
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > a challenge?"
>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > James, starting with God is a bad idea. Perhaps, ending up
> > > > > >> at it is
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > what needs to happen. Dawkins was in Jaipur here and I
> > > > > >> found his view
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > a lot more balanced, less bigoted and militant.
>
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > And Neil is right : it must deal with morality. Where his
> > > > > >> discourse
> > > > > >> > > > > > > > runs dry is when he is quoting other people ! That is also
> > > > > >> my
>
> ...
>
> read more »
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