Re: Mind's Eye Re: What is the individual?

I know my view is not that of the world..  if it was  there would have been massive changes long ago,,  the best I can hope for is to ask the right questions,  throw out some ideas,,  in talking with young people and hopefully they may start thinking and come up with ideas that they might be able to bring about change.. they are the one that have the responsibility now. My role at best would be of that of an elder.

I do know you can not pay off debt with more debt. all though people will try to convince you that you can do it with poverty. whether they like it or not their souls are at risk.

Our ideas need to be put out there for examination whether they are right or wrong, it doesn't matter..

Allan

On Sat, Feb 25, 2012 at 2:19 PM, Molly <mollyb363@gmail.com> wrote:

If what is on either side of the equal sign goes both ways, your
interpretation of my statement would be accurate.  I think I was
saying that we confuse our world view for what is in actuality, our
individual view.  In other words, we sometimes think the whole world
has a view that is actually just ours in the moment.  There is a
narcissistic psychology to this that seems to be prevalent in those
that need to feel themselves "right" or superior or more powerful.
I've also found it interesting that everyone else in the room can
sometimes see it, but the person espousing.  A good absurd joke can
bust through that illusion and humble us in a way that brings us to
the point of knowing that we know nothing, it is all a matter of view.

To discuss individuality, we should probably discuss identity, which
is what the narcissist will defend to the end, needing to be right,
see others as wrong and so on.  How we create our identities has a
direct relationship to consciousness, because as more of our
consciousness is found in the infinite, and less in limitations, we
quite naturally let go of our stories, identity, our values - and they
are aligned with the eternal.  We are by design, both finite and
infinite.  Our identities are steeped in duality and limitation.
After a long day a work, a good comedy routine can help shed all the
tensions of the day, and restore my harmony.  Resting my(our)self(ves)
in the paradox of the one and the many brings a good nights sleep.

On Feb 24, 4:06 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Molly made the point in another thread that we conflate individuality
> with what is really a world-view.    Most of us like to think we have
> a good quota of individuality - but then express this as dedicated
> followers of fashion.  I know as a teacher that trying to set up
> lessons that students really take hold of and do their own thing in
> relies an having some pretty unusual people in.  Most students claim
> to want to do their own thing, but the vast majority will do no
> constructive work (even against my open standards on what this can be)
> if they have to organise it themselves.  US society is often claimed
> to be the most individualistic in the world - yet look at the
> organisation in American Football.
>
> My own view is that our lack of individuality actually arises from the
> promulgation of celebrity, either as in mad political cults or via
> 'International Hollywood'.  An example of the first is North Korea
> and, of course, we are the prime example of the latter.  In our case,
> the ready-to-hand of ADMASS means we have almost no real public
> dialogue as everything is mediated through the crass world view and
> most people have soaked this up as their individuality.  Quine made
> the point long ago that the notion of evidence is difficult because of
> something like this.  People think the evidence has come from the
> outside, when in fact they only deal with what has impinged and
> networked in the world-view they have soaked up.
>
> There's a classic example of this about at the moment.  It's debt and
> the way we construe the term in the way we think about household debt
> as the same as this economic-bankster stuff.  Normal dialogue is
> impossible because most people can't understand the language because
> they have never invested the effort to get beyond an imprinted self.
>
> Much has been written on this, usually under the guise of paradigms -
> with the idea that we can learn different ones in external language.
> This seems a non-starter for me, as at least 85% of "language" is non-
> verbal and huge amounts manipulative.  I would contend that
> individualism is the curse of our times and exemplified by such
> discussions as whether bankers and sports stars are worth their riches
> - always discussed in the paradigm of an individual meritocracy that
> goes unchallenged.  From other perspectives the presence of these
> "individuals" is evidence of what they system produces and reason
> enough to change it.

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|_D Allan

Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.