the examples to emulate. Many children are "parked" in school as sort
of a baby-sitting service. I don't think modern politics is much of a
worthy inspiration- maybe emerging countries will design a better
model. I fear the press is being gobbled up by economic losses, bias,
soundbites and the internet- the latter reminds me of a school of
sardines in a constant swirl.//I thought later that some of the
examples I have encountered had a common denominator- they were the
eldest child- female- from a large family so maybe it's all about the
pecking order and competition.
On Feb 2, 4:28 pm, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Literally hits home for me, Neil, as Detroit becomes the first US city
> to go bankrupt after years of accepted corruption by a gang of
> politicians and cronies accepted by voters until the Feds came in and
> the ousting began (thanks to actions by the press, not the Feds
> initially.) What is it in each of us that needs to cheat, condemn,
> lie, engage cruelty, gossip, etc., Why does it all inspire more of
> the same in a group? How do we stop it? Good questions. The answer
> to the question "where to begin" might be revealing.
>
> On Feb 2, 8:39 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Much to agree with on what we might call fudge and mudge. Things
> > certainly seem to have become much worse as the business model and its
> > people have moved in. What I want to know more about is what
> > facilitates the corruption and, of course, what might bring it to an
> > end. This should be a key issue in organisational design, but anti-
> > corruption becomes a self-serving bureaucracy in-itself, often
> > preventing the actual desired purpose.
>
> > One of the naive issues ejucation is replete with is teaching the
> > right way to do things without reference to what goes on in actual
> > work situations and power-relations. Many of us respond with some
> > distress to standard philosophical considerations where the argument
> > made is only possible because of what is excluded. In business
> > ejucation this is referred to as the learning transfer problem - these
> > days no one dares to say the 'learning material' itself is a load of
> > tosh (shades of the worst of religion). My mature students, always a
> > source of inspiration, have often said they enjoy being able to debate
> > critical concerns and that they hope I don't expect them to take this
> > into the workplace where this would be an effective job-suicide note.
>
> > Whistle-blowers are now being paid off through compromise agreements
> > even in bodies responsible for supervising complaints and standards.
> > "Harmony" is a hair spray rigsy! Not a bad metaphor for what gets
> > sprayed over the problems. My feeling is the rotten orchard needs
> > something stronger. The situation is 'Emperor's New Clothes', but I'm
> > afraid the child's voice ending and everything fine after that can't
> > work.
>
> > I'm not concerned much on a personal basis, largely on what Molly
> > says. I suspect the stuff of this corruption prevents almost all
> > practical argument and is what science excludes from its
> > considerations.
>
> > On Feb 2, 12:32 pm, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > Yes- it is about harmony- understanding it and finding it.
>
> > > On Feb 2, 5:44 am, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > I can see that my sense of morality has changed over the years along
> > > > with my relationship to life. Yet at the core of it, is a sense of
> > > > self respect that allowed me to walk away from a couple of decent
> > > > incomes and destructive human relationships because of the culture of
> > > > war they brought with them. Somehow, expressing truth in the moment
> > > > was never enough, the war raged on. In retrospect, I can see that
> > > > what I was walking to when walking away was far better, but at the
> > > > time, the path was forming as my foot hit the exit doorway in the
> > > > walking away. I've never been comfortable in that scenario, but I can
> > > > now see it has payed off for me in the long run. It always starts
> > > > with listening to my gut.
>
> > > > An interesting time we live in, with our education, political and
> > > > financial systems no longer serving us. With eyes blurred from Rome
> > > > burning, it is hard to see what is coming for us. What I do know is
> > > > we are a resilient lot, and something will. The education system does
> > > > suck, my youngest is still in University and has always struggled with
> > > > the system. He will get his BA in May with honors, something he never
> > > > experienced in the younger grades. Somehow, he made it work out of a
> > > > desire for a good life.
>
> > > > Myself, I found a way to make it work while still doing my own thing
> > > > in the University, but after being told by the English Dept to find a
> > > > different course of study. I was lucky that there was a more creative
> > > > "alternative" available or I would probably have quit. I did see
> > > > (what seemed to me) the brightest teachers struggling with the
> > > > bureaucracy of their profession. But it seems to me we all struggle
> > > > with that, even my husband, the Chiropractor, who is in practice by
> > > > himself. If we live in community, we adapt to the rules, regs, norms,
> > > > laws, while expressing ourselves the best we can. Seems to me that
> > > > finding a lasting harmony there is the real trick, no matter the
> > > > details of it.
>
> > > > On Feb 1, 3:54 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > I had a sense of doing what seemed right as a cop Allan - even though
> > > > > most situations were difficult to see a right side in. The academy
> > > > > stinks as in the State of Denmark and I get to feel the only thing is
> > > > > to retreat to the margins. My working guess is that it's
> > > > > "meritocracy" that sucks.
>
> > > > > On Feb 1, 8:30 pm, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > not being obnoxious, The that comes to my mind is just what is your
> > > > > > understanding of morality and how it is applied in ones life.
> > > > > > Understanding morality on a personal level can be quite difficult,
> > > > > > especially if you want it to make sense.
> > > > > > Allan
>
> > > > > > On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 7:39 PM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > I hope to spend the next 5 years "not teaching" - a difficult
> > > > > > > financial decision as this is my 'ready-to-hand' income. Some years
> > > > > > > back I tried to take and stick to a decision not to teach 'ideological
> > > > > > > rot' - broadly the mainstream of business and economic subjects. This
> > > > > > > might seem a fairly easy personal, moral decision; yet it isn't.
>
> > > > > > > The interesting issues don't concern the easy morality of doing what's
> > > > > > > right. One can find plenty of material, from Critical Theory through
> > > > > > > to deconstructive approaches to behaviour and critical psychology -
> > > > > > > and once, very critical management books like Peter Anthony's
> > > > > > > 'Foundation of Management' and sort programmes out on the basis of
> > > > > > > these. Thus one could teach material one might feel credible and
> > > > > > > stretching, broadly aimed at students learning critical reasoning. I
> > > > > > > do offer modules based around writers like David Graeber, Steve Keen
> > > > > > > and modern blogs at the moment.
>
> > > > > > > What muddies the waters is a combination of streamlining costs in HE
> > > > > > > and more or less the extirpation of syllabus control by academics,
> > > > > > > along with a massive dilution of student brain-power and the
> > > > > > > connection of student success with the numbers we pass. This
> > > > > > > situation makes moral judgement very difficult and academe has
> > > > > > > collapsed altogether as a moral place.
>
> > > > > > > Economics has long been taught as a science - an utter farce - and
> > > > > > > management theories are only fit for ridicule (excellence, kwality and
> > > > > > > anything with 'strategic' in it). The world works around power and
> > > > > > > rhetoric, and this is the only real content of such "theories".
>
> > > > > > > The madness that underlies all this is that we never address what the
> > > > > > > real issues might be. Accumulated wealth is clearly a problem for
> > > > > > > democracy as it inevitably means some will benefit by doing nothing
> > > > > > > while others work and that the wealth will be used to influence
> > > > > > > politics and the very ground of commercial competition. Yet with no
> > > > > > > consideration of this we leap into "theorising" in a system that
> > > > > > > applauds the creation of excess wealth in few hands as a 'good'.
>
> > > > > > > One can try to teach what one believes is true and in simple morality
> > > > > > > this is what one ought to do. The actual situation is much more
> > > > > > > complex. The jobs available in teaching (apart from a few little
> > > > > > > eddies I have occupied) are nearly all to do with teaching the rot,
> > > > > > > because this is the cheapest way universities can devise. The moral
> > > > > > > choice of not teaching rot changes to a choice not to teach (and get
> > > > > > > paid) - partly because your own students will be examined on the rot
> > > > > > > because you are teaching as part of a 'team' and all students are set
> > > > > > > the same questions as part of standardisation. If you don't teach the
> > > > > > > muck you put your students at a disadvantage.
>
> > > > > > > I see no answers to the moral conundrum - other than just to walk
> > > > > > > away, putting distance between oneself and the madness.
>
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > (
> > > > > > )
> > > > > > |_D Allan
>
> > > > > > Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
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