existential heroes. I suspect this misses the point even though Vam's
interpretation here stands rather well (the film bored me too quickly
for me to last to interpretation). What I'm looking for is how we get
into obvious contradictions in which argument is stopped in favour of
ideology. Years back I was able to give honest advice to students -
such as telling one he was better suited to one of our best
universities rather than the provincial one I was working in. He
didn't ignore the advice but came to my programme because I'd been
honest with him. He did the first two years with us and then finished
at Manchester. These days I could be sacked for this honest advice.
I broadly accept capitalism; yet one can't justify its excesses, wars
and the utter contradiction between bettering oneself through
accumulating money and equalities of opportunity disappearing to debt
peonage for those without accumulated wealth.
On Feb 4, 6:26 am, Vam <atewari2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 4, 11:18 am, Vam <atewari2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Correction :
>
> 1) " At every crossroads in MY life, I have always known the right
> path
>
> > to take. But I didn't. You know why ? Because it was too damned hard.
>
> 2) That's the only reason we are not honest, fair, sincere,
> compassionate
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > and sharing... 1) We do not KNOW what is the right thing to do, not just
> > for ourself. And 2) It's too damned hard to do the right thing, when
> > there are scores of easier paths to take.
>
> > On Feb 3, 8:42 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > I've ceased to believe that corruption stems from the top or that the
> > > good leader is as Vam states (though this would be very welcome in
> > > practice). I've generally held to Harry Bosch's (Michael Connelly
> > > detective) motto 'everyone counts or no one does' in my work. I
> > > suspect in me this comes from Xtian stories. If we want decent people
> > > at the top one would expect the values Vam espouses to be those valued
> > > and practiced throughout - in fact we laud something else altogether.
> > > I go with a lot rigsy says on the problem being based in apparently
> > > innocuous practices. Further on, imagine joining a political party
> > > with the idea of becoming a councillor or MP (etc.) It's a total
> > > pain and its also not too hard to imagine how easy it is for money
> > > (and potentially the interests of other governments) can influence the
> > > early selection of candidates. The very structures of organising play
> > > their part - and deeper my guess is we don't need the kind of
> > > leadership that arises in these systems and that is more to do with
> > > our primate past than we know.
>
> > > On Feb 3, 12:46 pm, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Kennedy was also involved in illegal something or other in the stock
> > > > market- one reason he got that financial position is that he knew how
> > > > to manipulate it. Anyway, could never figure his attachment to Gloria
> > > > Swanson (yikes!) while Rose had child after child and retreated to her
> > > > rosary. Well- maybe a rosary is less stressful. :-)
>
> > > > On Feb 3, 1:04 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > Hmmm that sounds like the much like the US congress.. itis strange how
> > > > > they amass massive fortunes on a $400,000.oo salaries. {I know Joe Kennedy
> > > > > was in the whiskery trade
> > > > > when it was on the illegal side.
>
> > > > > the amounts of fortunes politicians gain has got to be comming from some
> > > > > place .. It is good to hear that Detroit is changing, although I think the
> > > > > crooks are just out side the door waiting. Maybe all politicians should
> > > > > have to disclose property and finances for their entire families on a
> > > > > yearly basis making tose record public.. and a department where
> > > > > citizens can go to have the questionable investigated. Corruption in
> > > > > politics is rampant in the US.
> > > > > Allan
>
> > > > > On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 11:28 PM, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > Literally hits home for me, Neil, as Detroit becomes the first US city
> > > > > > to go bankrupt after years of accepted corruption by a gang of
> > > > > > politicians and cronies accepted by voters until the Feds came in and
> > > > > > the ousting began (thanks to actions by the press, not the Feds
> > > > > > initially.) What is it in each of us that needs to cheat, condemn,
> > > > > > lie, engage cruelty, gossip, etc., Why does it all inspire more of
> > > > > > the same in a group? How do we stop it? Good questions. The answer
> > > > > > to the question "where to begin" might be revealing.
>
> > > > > > On Feb 2, 8:39 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > Much to agree with on what we might call fudge and mudge. Things
> > > > > > > certainly seem to have become much worse as the business model and its
> > > > > > > people have moved in. What I want to know more about is what
> > > > > > > facilitates the corruption and, of course, what might bring it to an
> > > > > > > end. This should be a key issue in organisational design, but anti-
> > > > > > > corruption becomes a self-serving bureaucracy in-itself, often
> > > > > > > preventing the actual desired purpose.
>
> > > > > > > One of the naive issues ejucation is replete with is teaching the
> > > > > > > right way to do things without reference to what goes on in actual
> > > > > > > work situations and power-relations. Many of us respond with some
> > > > > > > distress to standard philosophical considerations where the argument
> > > > > > > made is only possible because of what is excluded. In business
> > > > > > > ejucation this is referred to as the learning transfer problem - these
> > > > > > > days no one dares to say the 'learning material' itself is a load of
> > > > > > > tosh (shades of the worst of religion). My mature students, always a
> > > > > > > source of inspiration, have often said they enjoy being able to debate
> > > > > > > critical concerns and that they hope I don't expect them to take this
> > > > > > > into the workplace where this would be an effective job-suicide note.
>
> > > > > > > Whistle-blowers are now being paid off through compromise agreements
> > > > > > > even in bodies responsible for supervising complaints and standards.
> > > > > > > "Harmony" is a hair spray rigsy! Not a bad metaphor for what gets
> > > > > > > sprayed over the problems. My feeling is the rotten orchard needs
> > > > > > > something stronger. The situation is 'Emperor's New Clothes', but I'm
> > > > > > > afraid the child's voice ending and everything fine after that can't
> > > > > > > work.
>
> > > > > > > I'm not concerned much on a personal basis, largely on what Molly
> > > > > > > says. I suspect the stuff of this corruption prevents almost all
> > > > > > > practical argument and is what science excludes from its
> > > > > > > considerations.
>
> > > > > > > On Feb 2, 12:32 pm, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > Yes- it is about harmony- understanding it and finding it.
>
> > > > > > > > On Feb 2, 5:44 am, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > I can see that my sense of morality has changed over the years along
> > > > > > > > > with my relationship to life. Yet at the core of it, is a sense of
> > > > > > > > > self respect that allowed me to walk away from a couple of decent
> > > > > > > > > incomes and destructive human relationships because of the culture of
> > > > > > > > > war they brought with them. Somehow, expressing truth in the moment
> > > > > > > > > was never enough, the war raged on. In retrospect, I can see that
> > > > > > > > > what I was walking to when walking away was far better, but at the
> > > > > > > > > time, the path was forming as my foot hit the exit doorway in the
> > > > > > > > > walking away. I've never been comfortable in that scenario, but I
> > > > > > can
> > > > > > > > > now see it has payed off for me in the long run. It always starts
> > > > > > > > > with listening to my gut.
>
> > > > > > > > > An interesting time we live in, with our education, political and
> > > > > > > > > financial systems no longer serving us. With eyes blurred from Rome
> > > > > > > > > burning, it is hard to see what is coming for us. What I do know is
> > > > > > > > > we are a resilient lot, and something will. The education system
> > > > > > does
> > > > > > > > > suck, my youngest is still in University and has always struggled
> > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > the system. He will get his BA in May with honors, something he
> > > > > > never
> > > > > > > > > experienced in the younger grades. Somehow, he made it work out of a
> > > > > > > > > desire for a good life.
>
> > > > > > > > > Myself, I found a way to make it work while still doing my own thing
> > > > > > > > > in the University, but after being told by the English Dept to find a
> > > > > > > > > different course of study. I was lucky that there was a more
> > > > > > creative
> > > > > > > > > "alternative" available or I would probably have quit. I did see
> > > > > > > > > (what seemed to me) the brightest teachers struggling with the
> > > > > > > > > bureaucracy of their profession. But it seems to me we all struggle
> > > > > > > > > with that, even my husband, the Chiropractor, who is in practice by
> > > > > > > > > himself. If we live in community, we adapt to the rules, regs,
> > > > > > norms,
> > > > > > > > > laws, while expressing ourselves the best we can. Seems to me that
> > > > > > > > > finding a lasting harmony there is the real trick, no matter the
> > > > > > > > > details of it.
>
> > > > > > > > > On Feb 1, 3:54 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > I had a sense of doing what seemed right as a cop Allan - even
> > > > > > though
> > > > > > > > > > most situations were difficult to see a right side in. The academy
> > > > > > > > > > stinks as in the State of Denmark and I get to feel the only thing
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > to retreat to the
>
> > ...
>
> > read more »
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