simple morality. I was watching a piece on Versailles earlier and was
struck how many "human" fetishes have animal forms like Bowery birds,
peacocks and even 'slavery' in ants. I wonder whether the 'lie' is
that the economy must be libidinal..
On Feb 4, 2:24 pm, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> There may also be an element of curiousity in our nature...back to
> that juicy apple, Eve & Adam...or that we are clever enough to beat
> the odds. What would happen to repentance and striving to be a better
> person? Do our sins create us as much as our virtues?
>
> On Feb 4, 12:18 am, Vam <atewari2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Was watching " The Scent Of A Woman " yesterday. Pacino is late middle
> > age, blind and yet very ' military ' in how he sounds. Towards the
> > end, he's in New York during Thanksgiving with a high school
> > youngster, Charlie, who has been charged by school authorities with
> > grave misconduct along with few others. Since an indictment by the
> > School Committee would be huge setback to his further studies, he is
> > caught in a bind at a luring proposal to gain admission in Harvard if
> > he would squeal on others. The other co-accused are heirs to much
> > influence and money, which were actually at work then upon school
> > authorities and Committee members to go lenient.
>
> > But, in New York, Pacino is finished with his plans for the visit and
> > is about to end his life, of which he believes he has had his fill.
> > And, Charlie can't get over the call of his conscience, not to squeal
> > despite considerable personal loss. Days later, at the trial before
> > assembled students and teachers, Charlie stays his ground and the
> > influential are confident of getting away, when Pacino enters, takes
> > stage, and says :
>
> > " At every crossroads in his life, I have always known the right path
> > to take. But I didn't. You know why ? Because it was too damned hard.
>
> > " Charlie is at one such crossroad. He has chosen to take the right
> > path. Let us help him along. "
>
> > That's the only reason we are not honest, fair, sincere, compassionate
> > and sharing... 1) We do not what is the right thing to do, not just
> > for ourself. And 2) It's too damned hard to do the right thing, when
> > there are scores of easier paths to take.
>
> > On Feb 3, 8:42 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > I've ceased to believe that corruption stems from the top or that the
> > > good leader is as Vam states (though this would be very welcome in
> > > practice). I've generally held to Harry Bosch's (Michael Connelly
> > > detective) motto 'everyone counts or no one does' in my work. I
> > > suspect in me this comes from Xtian stories. If we want decent people
> > > at the top one would expect the values Vam espouses to be those valued
> > > and practiced throughout - in fact we laud something else altogether.
> > > I go with a lot rigsy says on the problem being based in apparently
> > > innocuous practices. Further on, imagine joining a political party
> > > with the idea of becoming a councillor or MP (etc.) It's a total
> > > pain and its also not too hard to imagine how easy it is for money
> > > (and potentially the interests of other governments) can influence the
> > > early selection of candidates. The very structures of organising play
> > > their part - and deeper my guess is we don't need the kind of
> > > leadership that arises in these systems and that is more to do with
> > > our primate past than we know.
>
> > > On Feb 3, 12:46 pm, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Kennedy was also involved in illegal something or other in the stock
> > > > market- one reason he got that financial position is that he knew how
> > > > to manipulate it. Anyway, could never figure his attachment to Gloria
> > > > Swanson (yikes!) while Rose had child after child and retreated to her
> > > > rosary. Well- maybe a rosary is less stressful. :-)
>
> > > > On Feb 3, 1:04 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > Hmmm that sounds like the much like the US congress.. itis strange how
> > > > > they amass massive fortunes on a $400,000.oo salaries. {I know Joe Kennedy
> > > > > was in the whiskery trade
> > > > > when it was on the illegal side.
>
> > > > > the amounts of fortunes politicians gain has got to be comming from some
> > > > > place .. It is good to hear that Detroit is changing, although I think the
> > > > > crooks are just out side the door waiting. Maybe all politicians should
> > > > > have to disclose property and finances for their entire families on a
> > > > > yearly basis making tose record public.. and a department where
> > > > > citizens can go to have the questionable investigated. Corruption in
> > > > > politics is rampant in the US.
> > > > > Allan
>
> > > > > On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 11:28 PM, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > Literally hits home for me, Neil, as Detroit becomes the first US city
> > > > > > to go bankrupt after years of accepted corruption by a gang of
> > > > > > politicians and cronies accepted by voters until the Feds came in and
> > > > > > the ousting began (thanks to actions by the press, not the Feds
> > > > > > initially.) What is it in each of us that needs to cheat, condemn,
> > > > > > lie, engage cruelty, gossip, etc., Why does it all inspire more of
> > > > > > the same in a group? How do we stop it? Good questions. The answer
> > > > > > to the question "where to begin" might be revealing.
>
> > > > > > On Feb 2, 8:39 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > Much to agree with on what we might call fudge and mudge. Things
> > > > > > > certainly seem to have become much worse as the business model and its
> > > > > > > people have moved in. What I want to know more about is what
> > > > > > > facilitates the corruption and, of course, what might bring it to an
> > > > > > > end. This should be a key issue in organisational design, but anti-
> > > > > > > corruption becomes a self-serving bureaucracy in-itself, often
> > > > > > > preventing the actual desired purpose.
>
> > > > > > > One of the naive issues ejucation is replete with is teaching the
> > > > > > > right way to do things without reference to what goes on in actual
> > > > > > > work situations and power-relations. Many of us respond with some
> > > > > > > distress to standard philosophical considerations where the argument
> > > > > > > made is only possible because of what is excluded. In business
> > > > > > > ejucation this is referred to as the learning transfer problem - these
> > > > > > > days no one dares to say the 'learning material' itself is a load of
> > > > > > > tosh (shades of the worst of religion). My mature students, always a
> > > > > > > source of inspiration, have often said they enjoy being able to debate
> > > > > > > critical concerns and that they hope I don't expect them to take this
> > > > > > > into the workplace where this would be an effective job-suicide note.
>
> > > > > > > Whistle-blowers are now being paid off through compromise agreements
> > > > > > > even in bodies responsible for supervising complaints and standards.
> > > > > > > "Harmony" is a hair spray rigsy! Not a bad metaphor for what gets
> > > > > > > sprayed over the problems. My feeling is the rotten orchard needs
> > > > > > > something stronger. The situation is 'Emperor's New Clothes', but I'm
> > > > > > > afraid the child's voice ending and everything fine after that can't
> > > > > > > work.
>
> > > > > > > I'm not concerned much on a personal basis, largely on what Molly
> > > > > > > says. I suspect the stuff of this corruption prevents almost all
> > > > > > > practical argument and is what science excludes from its
> > > > > > > considerations.
>
> > > > > > > On Feb 2, 12:32 pm, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > Yes- it is about harmony- understanding it and finding it.
>
> > > > > > > > On Feb 2, 5:44 am, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > I can see that my sense of morality has changed over the years along
> > > > > > > > > with my relationship to life. Yet at the core of it, is a sense of
> > > > > > > > > self respect that allowed me to walk away from a couple of decent
> > > > > > > > > incomes and destructive human relationships because of the culture of
> > > > > > > > > war they brought with them. Somehow, expressing truth in the moment
> > > > > > > > > was never enough, the war raged on. In retrospect, I can see that
> > > > > > > > > what I was walking to when walking away was far better, but at the
> > > > > > > > > time, the path was forming as my foot hit the exit doorway in the
> > > > > > > > > walking away. I've never been comfortable in that scenario, but I
> > > > > > can
> > > > > > > > > now see it has payed off for me in the long run. It always starts
> > > > > > > > > with listening to my gut.
>
> > > > > > > > > An interesting time we live in, with our education, political and
> > > > > > > > > financial systems no longer serving us. With eyes blurred from Rome
> > > > > > > > > burning, it is hard to see what is coming for us. What I do know is
> > > > > > > > > we are a resilient lot, and something will. The education system
> > > > > > does
> > > > > > > > > suck, my youngest is still in University and has always struggled
> > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > the system. He will get his BA in May with honors, something he
> > > > > > never
> > > > > > > > > experienced in the younger grades. Somehow, he made it work out of a
> > > > > > > > > desire for a good life.
>
> > > > > > > > > Myself, I found a way to make it work while still doing my own thing
> > > > > > > > > in the University, but after being told by the English Dept to find a
> > > > > > > > > different course of study. I was lucky that there was a more
> > > > > > creative
> > > > > > > > > "alternative" available or I would probably have quit. I did see
> > > > > > > > > (what seemed to me) the brightest teachers struggling with the
> > > > > > > > > bureaucracy of their profession. But it seems to me we all struggle
> > > > > > > > > with that, even my husband, the Chiropractor, who is in practice by
> > > > > > > > > himself. If we live in community, we adapt to the rules, regs,
> > > > > > norms,
>
> ...
>
> read more »
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