On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 12:45 AM, archytas <nwterry@gmail.com> wrote:
Your gist is right Don - though I fear they fancy war as the way out.
I think where we lost the plot is in not realising how little work is
now needed for a decent society and how much leisure we could have if
we weren't so neurotic. I think competition should start on the basis
of decent wages and a salary cap - but how do we do this wiithout
something as perverse as a dictatorship of the mediocre?
On Mar 26, 6:10 pm, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> - In the
> real world the horse is a dead donkey and I'm lending money to a bunch
> of unemployable drifters who borrow the money to drink at ever
> increasing prices in my pub.
>
> The Bwanksters. I get it. That whole mortgage bundling scam is at the root
> of all our troubles. The SEC should have never let that happen. Smells like
> fraud. House values are still falsely inflated.
>
> In the Macro where billions are at work my little example of what money
> is(more like what it should be) does crumble. To dust. However, the vast
> majority of us use money in just such a fashion as I have suggested. So I
> do see your point on how the Bwanksters are hosing us. We let them though.
> They couldn't do it if we didn't enjoy it. We meaning the General Public.
> We like our houses and nice cars and some folks even borrow to buy their
> toys. RVs and boats and such. wth you can always declare bankruptcy, right?
> This kind of thinking has us where we are. Bankruptcy is supposed to teach
> us something. Give us 7 years of no credit to become lean and learn
> sacrifice and thrift.
>
> We ain't larnin nothin'. The entire Occupy WJ movement seems to be about
> gimmie, gimmie, gimmie. I did switch all my banking to my credit union.
> That's my big stand.
>
> dj
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 8:54 PM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Sadly Don, money ain't what you say - though I wish it was. We have
> > blue, brown and purple beer vouchers over here that correspond to the
> > money you mean and one can borrow these from banks as long as you
> > don't mention you aim to blow it on wine, women and song. This is the
> > stuff we work for, but money and debt have become really weird. The
> > beer (or family comfort) vouchers in our pockets are being devalued in
> > all kinds of ways we have no control over - from Tarp to queezing to
> > the machinations of offshore "management techniques" that shift jobs
> > abroad to depress our wages and evade tax through transfer pricing -
> > plus the looting through capital flight. The price we pay for a
> > banana includes all this.
> > The current rumour is even Germany is hiding a trillion or so of bank
> > debt. I think Allan is right and Molly's money-lenders' tables are
> > the false accounting ones of governments and banks. Thieving and
> > government bread and circuses rather than genuine public spending seem
> > likely culprits. Every debt should produce a productive asset - so
> > why are these debts all feared to be so bad? The standard answer at
> > the moment is it's all a Ponzi that requires asset prices to keep
> > rising and new money to keep flowing in. As Molly says it's an old
> > story - though I think more of the South Sea Bubble and French people
> > signing contracts to buy bits of Louisiana on a hunchback, thinking
> > it was an island off the west coast of America.
> > Only 19% of the Greek bailout reached Greece and we still have no clue
> > who owns much bigger worthless debt in Spain and Portugal. No one
> > knows what, if anything, any of this massive electronically created
> > money (debt is the new money) bought. Bank debt in the UK is massive
> > but this would be a good thing if the investments were wise (much of
> > it is held by foreign banks based here - maybe for the bad reasons
> > Lehmann was here with its repo 105 fiddles). Money is now produced in
> > accounting fiddles and this is the same money we hold as 'beer
> > vouchers'. London is the centre of all this, but the debt held in
> > Eurozone banks is massive.
>
> > Repos work a bit like this - Don sells me his best horse and agrees to
> > buy it back on a set date for a bit more than he sells it to me - this
> > is like me giving Don a loan with the horse as collateral (the extra
> > he pays at the end is really interest). I never get the horse but can
> > use it (hypothecate) as my collateral for the period of the repo. In
> > fact this can happen several times, and Don's horse can be the
> > collateral behind thousands of trades, all supposedly insured through
> > derivatives. So Don has his repo money and I'm loaning out loads more
> > on the basis of a claim on his horse. If all the loans work we are
> > both quids in and it's all insured so Don's horse is never at risk.
> > Fine, except these trades aren't between men like me and Don. In the
> > real world the horse is a dead donkey and I'm lending money to a bunch
> > of unemployable drifters who borrow the money to drink at ever
> > increasing prices in my pub.
>
> > On Mar 25, 8:09 pm, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Money is simply a means to goods and services we need or want. I don't
> > > consider it greedy or immoral to want more for myself and family when it
> > > comes to safety and comfort. Some would call this materialistic I call it
> > > good policy. The more I make the more I feel safe. That is, I don't worry
> > > about food and shelter. That said, I will agree our society in general
> > buys
> > > far more then it needs. We often borrow to do it. This is bad. It's bad
> > > when individuals do it and it's bad when governments do it. I would
> > rather
> > > you see the borrowing part as the evil and not the spending part. In
> > > general, spending is good. It helps us all and grows the economy.
> > Borrowing
> > > is a false growth for which Greece and the US and others must now pay the
> > > price for. Each successive admin. keeps borrowing more and pushing the
> > day
> > > of reckoning off another year. Or 4. Someday this buck passing must end.
> > I
> > > see Europe as trying it's best to end it for Greece.
>
> > > It's not going to be pretty.
>
> > > dj
>
> > > On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 10:27 AM, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > age old tale. Christ overturns the tables of the money changers in
> > > > the temple.
>
> > > > On Mar 24, 11:54 pm, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > Was playing solitary thinking about the movie series the wife and I
> > are
> > > > > watching, writing poetry at 5:30 am with daylight savings time
> > kicking
> > > > in..
> > > > > of with writing poetry thinking semi kicks in there in lies the
> > problem..
>
> > > > > Looking at the debt crisis of Greece -- thinking about the movie
> > with a
> > > > > physical black cloud that can drag you away .. the representation of
> > pure
> > > > > evil...
> > > > > It dawned on me with Greece being hit extremely hard bar the
> > financial
> > > > > crisis.. three is a rather strange relationship there. Greece is
> > really
> > > > > the seat of modern day Christianity........ banking has taken over
> > the
> > > > > country which forms roots of spiritual christianity .
> > > > > In Greece and the rest of the world money banksters have replaced
> > God...
>
> > > > > The real guest ion is has money and its pursuit replaced God and
> > > > morality?
> > > > > As shown in Greece.
> > > > > Allan
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