Re: Mind's Eye Re: What is the individual?

well I was quick enough they threw me out.
Allan

On Sun, Mar 4, 2012 at 1:49 PM, Molly <mollyb363@gmail.com> wrote:
When I was in Catholic school, the punch line was a nun falling down
the stairs.  It was funnier when we were suffering the abuse of the
nuns.

On Mar 4, 4:39 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> What is black and white and red all over?
> A sun  burned penguin ....
> Allan
>  On Mar 4, 2012 6:21 AM, "archytas" <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > A good joke was mentioned AL!
>
> > On Mar 1, 7:11 pm, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Gabby what is black an white an red all over?
> > > Allan
>
> > > On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 10:09 AM, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Puh, Molly, the "because it also brings joy" is like explaining why you
> > > > should laugh about my funny joke.
>
> > > > On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 1:35 PM, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > >> The wrath of Christ toward the money changers in the temple is
> > > >> repeated in us until recognized.  Recognition is the key.  the
> > > >> rational mind will always reason and compare because that is the
> > > >> necessary function of it.  When we base our identity in these
> > > >> comparisons, we limit our own natures, because they are limited.
> > > >> Witnessing not only what we think about, the form of the thought, but
> > > >> how we think, our thinking processes, is what gets us beyond the
> > > >> limitation of thinking.  We get beyond with recognition.  Experiencing
> > > >> the world with a silent mind is like standing on the best viewpoint in
> > > >> the Grand Canyon.  Exhilarating.  Being able to maintain a quiet mind
> > > >> the majority of the time requires not only recognition (and
> > > >> detachment) of thought, but the process of thinking.  Thinking doesn't
> > > >> stop.  We stop basing our identities in it, and we use it less.
>
> > > >> Few things bring us to the recognition of our experience beyond
> > > >> thought like a good laugh, because it also brings joy.
>
> > > >> On Feb 27, 1:49 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> > I don't disagree with Molly, though I was just presenting what her
> > > >> > words 'rang' in me.  My belief is that consciousness in used too
> > > >> > infrequently - the basics of the mess of our communities and people
> > is
> > > >> > unconscious and broadly animal (the mess includes some good stuff).
> > > >> > Consciousness is too easily overcome by cunning, and, as Molly says,
> > > >> > narcissism.
> > > >> > What has struck me for a long time is how difficult it is to present
> > > >> > argument because it's too difficult to get anyone to take part
> > > >> > 'honestly' - this is particularly difficult for teachers these days!
> > > >> > In some areas, I have stopped thinking in standard ways - gender is
> > an
> > > >> > example.  I tend to see in terms of certain types being fascinated
> > by
> > > >> > trinkets, fashion, gossip - one could imagine a shaggy dog story
> > here
> > > >> > in which these types all turn out to be women - but honestly that's
> > > >> > not what I mean.  I'm not interested in my identity as a man - but
> > in
> > > >> > terms of what I'm able to be and do - maleness is largely a
> > > >> > constraint, animal and not much I want.  The opportunities for
> > > >> > identity seem very much off-the-peg and already detailed to copy.
> >  One
> > > >> > modern identity that interests me is that of the 'empty creditor' -
> > > >> > those who bring bankruptcy about through derivatives wangles.  Some
> > of
> > > >> > my students clearly see such as models to copy - shrewd in money-
> > > >> > making.  The image of this identity in me is more one of the vile
> > > >> > usurer demanding sex through threats of eviction in silent film.
> >  The
> > > >> > apparatchiks quickly became entrepreneurchiks once Soviet rhetoric
> > > >> > gave way to World Bank trash.  There is surely a false individualism
> > > >> > that is merely chameleon-like?  And soul is denied RP.  I suspect
> > mine
> > > >> > troubles me and I don't not welcome that given what I see around me!
>
> > > >> > On Feb 26, 3:53 pm, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > >> > > The thes [THEs] that define this may come in undivided by duality,
> > > >> what
> > > >> > > they have been multiplied with is to be experienced nevertheless.
>
> > > >> > > On Sat, Feb 25, 2012 at 3:25 PM, RP Singh <123...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > >> > > > The one who is aware of oneself and the others is the
> > individual  --
> > > >> > > > and that cannot be without consciousness. The one that is
> > > >> unconscious
> > > >> > > > is not an individual but the Soul from which all the
> > individualities
> > > >> > > > emanate. The identity is just the covering of an individuality.
>
> > > >> > > > On Sat, Feb 25, 2012 at 7:33 PM, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com
>
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >> > > > > Ideas of identity are related to matter - I allow that to
> > happen
> > > >> every
> > > >> > > > > night.
>
> > > >> > > > > On Sat, Feb 25, 2012 at 2:40 PM, Allan H <
> > allanh1...@gmail.com>
> > > >> wrote:
>
> > > >> > > > >> I know my view is not that of the world..  if it was  there
> > > >> would have
> > > >> > > > >> been massive changes long ago,,  the best I can hope for is
> > to
> > > >> ask the
> > > >> > > > right
> > > >> > > > >> questions,  throw out some ideas,,  in talking with young
> > people
> > > >> and
> > > >> > > > >> hopefully they may start thinking and come up with ideas that
> > > >> they
> > > >> > > > might be
> > > >> > > > >> able to bring about change.. they are the one that have the
> > > >> > > > responsibility
> > > >> > > > >> now. My role at best would be of that of an elder.
>
> > > >> > > > >> I do know you can not pay off debt with more debt. all though
> > > >> people
> > > >> > > > will
> > > >> > > > >> try to convince you that you can do it with poverty. whether
> > > >> they like
> > > >> > > > it or
> > > >> > > > >> not their souls are at risk.
>
> > > >> > > > >> Our ideas need to be put out there for examination whether
> > they
> > > >> are
> > > >> > > > right
> > > >> > > > >> or wrong, it doesn't matter..
> > > >> > > > >> Allan
>
> > > >> > > > >> On Sat, Feb 25, 2012 at 2:19 PM, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com>
> > > >> wrote:
>
> > > >> > > > >>> If what is on either side of the equal sign goes both ways,
> > your
> > > >> > > > >>> interpretation of my statement would be accurate.  I think
> > I was
> > > >> > > > >>> saying that we confuse our world view for what is in
> > actuality,
> > > >> our
> > > >> > > > >>> individual view.  In other words, we sometimes think the
> > whole
> > > >> world
> > > >> > > > >>> has a view that is actually just ours in the moment.  There
> > is a
> > > >> > > > >>> narcissistic psychology to this that seems to be prevalent
> > in
> > > >> those
> > > >> > > > >>> that need to feel themselves "right" or superior or more
> > > >> powerful.
> > > >> > > > >>> I've also found it interesting that everyone else in the
> > room
> > > >> can
> > > >> > > > >>> sometimes see it, but the person espousing.  A good absurd
> > joke
> > > >> can
> > > >> > > > >>> bust through that illusion and humble us in a way that
> > brings
> > > >> us to
> > > >> > > > >>> the point of knowing that we know nothing, it is all a
> > matter
> > > >> of view.
>
> > > >> > > > >>> To discuss individuality, we should probably discuss
> > identity,
> > > >> which
> > > >> > > > >>> is what the narcissist will defend to the end, needing to be
> > > >> right,
> > > >> > > > >>> see others as wrong and so on.  How we create our identities
> > > >> has a
> > > >> > > > >>> direct relationship to consciousness, because as more of our
> > > >> > > > >>> consciousness is found in the infinite, and less in
> > > >> limitations, we
> > > >> > > > >>> quite naturally let go of our stories, identity, our values
> > -
> > > >> and they
> > > >> > > > >>> are aligned with the eternal.  We are by design, both
> > finite and
> > > >> > > > >>> infinite.  Our identities are steeped in duality and
> > limitation.
> > > >> > > > >>> After a long day a work, a good comedy routine can help shed
> > > >> all the
> > > >> > > > >>> tensions of the day, and restore my harmony.  Resting
> > > >> my(our)self(ves)
> > > >> > > > >>> in the paradox of the one and the many brings a good nights
> > > >> sleep.
>
> > > >> > > > >>> On Feb 24, 4:06 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> > > > >>> > Molly made the point in another thread that we conflate
> > > >> individuality
> > > >> > > > >>> > with what is really a world-view.    Most of us like to
> > think
> > > >> we have
> > > >> > > > >>> > a good quota of individuality - but then express this as
> > > >> dedicated
> > > >> > > > >>> > followers of fashion.  I know as a teacher that trying to
> > set
> > > >> up
> > > >> > > > >>> > lessons that students really take hold of and do their own
> > > >> thing in
> > > >> > > > >>> > relies an having some pretty unusual people in.  Most
> > > >> students claim
> > > >> > > > >>> > to want to do their own thing, but the vast majority will
> > do
> > > >> no
> > > >> > > > >>> > constructive work (even against my open standards on what
> > > >> this can
> > > >> > > > be)
> > > >> > > > >>> > if they have to organise it themselves.  US society is
> > often
> > > >> claimed
> > > >> > > > >>> > to be the most individualistic in the world - yet look at
> > the
> > > >> > > > >>> > organisation in American Football.
>
> > > >> > > > >>> > My own view is that our lack of individuality actually
> > arises
> > > >> from
> > > >> > > > the
> > > >> > > > >>> > promulgation of celebrity, either as in mad political
> > cults
> > > >> or via
> > > >> > > > >>> > 'International Hollywood'.  An example of the first is
> > North
> > > >> Korea
> > > >> > > > >>> > and, of course, we are the prime example of the latter.
> >  In
> > > >> our case,
> > > >> > > > >>> > the ready-to-hand of ADMASS means we have almost no real
> > > >> public
> > > >> > > > >>> > dialogue as everything is mediated through the crass world
> > > >> view and
> > > >> > > > >>> > most people have soaked this up as their individuality.
> > > >>  Quine made
> > > >> > > > >>> > the point long ago that the notion of evidence is
> > difficult
> > > >> because
> > > >> > > > of
> > > >> > > > >>> > something like this.  People think the evidence has come
> > from
> > > >> the
> > > >> > > > >>> > outside, when in fact they only deal with what has
> > impinged
> > > >> and
> > > >> > > > >>> > networked in the world-view they have soaked up.
>
> > > >> > > > >>> > There's
>
> ...
>
> read more »



--
 (
  )
|_D Allan

Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.



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