Re: Mind's Eye New Google Groups is Dumb,but this not the subject

innate!

On Jun 25, 4:28 am, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think within each person is a tremendous amount of knowledge ,,  I think
> the real problem is learning to access it or relearning what is all ready
> known
> Allan
> On Jun 18, 2012 9:23 PM, "malcymo" <malc...@gmail.com> wrote:
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> > Yes Gabby,
>
> > The human conditioning that lies with us on the blank table: our
> > evolutionary successful traits.Things that we can just do like learn to
> > talk. Not the hard things like learn to write.
>
> > On Monday, June 18, 2012 9:48:07 PM UTC+12, gabbydott wrote:
>
> >> Yes, I think I know what you are aiming at. That's why I have been saying
> >> time and time again that the blank table theory on which you put or take
> >> away the food for development is an unuseful construct. Even if it has
> >> four legs, it still doesn't walk, so to speak. What I'd like to raise
> >> awareness for is that human conditioning starts before the little human
> >> lies on the table to be told and shown what is good and what is bad. In
> >> that sense I'd agree that there is something "natural" in morality.
>
> >> On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 4:00 PM, pol.science kid  wrote:
>
> >>> so when you say 'the human condition makes me human'... the fact of
> >>> being human makes me human.?...  and the conditions that be inform my
> >>> morality... now taking this and putting it on the dude from my book... so
> >>> it will absolve him of any amoral or immoral calls he takes... now i
> >>> suppose this was the stand i was driving at... but i cant get something in
> >>> my mind clear yet... i find somehow.. different the two worlds.. korea and
> >>> the Eusa... although the eusa has been formed after the 'apocalypse'... see
> >>> they can make themselves yet... their history of horror might inform their
> >>> 'morality or ethics'.. but then their life and experience will add to
> >>> it...their instincts will still have primacy(i have my questions about
> >>> instincts still though)... i dont see no 'evil overlord'... now if some one
> >>> starts form blank in a scenario(the korean camp)... where they are
> >>> conditioned by reward and punishment..quite different form what we say our
> >>> normal world gives.. where.. there are no bonds of sympathy... or empathy..
> >>> where causing the death of your kin is normal... i want to ask... and
> >>> know.. will the insticts of this person know.. how would right and wrong
> >>> be.. what would be 'natural'.. i cant help but think there is something
> >>> 'natural' in morality..and 'good'..what would be 'good' for those born in
> >>> camps... wouldnt this person be different from people who came to camp...
> >>> maybe because they have a recollection of what life can be ... although
> >>> even civil life in North korea is very much subject to control....this is
> >>> turning out to be a long winded thing.... but i think you may get my
> >>> jist....
>
> >>> On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 5:42 PM, gabbydott  wrote:
>
> >>>> Like James says, it's a familiar story. I don't think one needs to have
> >>>> read all the books on the subject to be able to recognize a universal
> >>>> pattern. How I relate to the world is geared by the human condition that
> >>>> made me human and where I am drawing connections I am doing the
> >>>> conditioning myself. Pinpointing high and low morale on an evolutionary map
> >>>> seems dumb in this light. My being a lion makes perfect sense at one time
> >>>> but I expect you to treat me as a human nevertheless. That's how I would
> >>>> approach the fear of losing history, historical knowledge and the
> >>>> forgetting of the morals evolved  thereof. Assessing independently of
> >>>> judgement is a much more pleasant state of mind, I understand. :)
>
> >>>> On Fri, Jun 15, 2012 at 10:53 PM, pol.science kid  wrote:
>
> >>>>> Uh.. since i didnt read the book ..i cant reeally say what the author
> >>>>> intends... but why i brought it up was to think about the conditioning of
> >>>>> human beings in a very different environment.. and what kinds of humans it
> >>>>> effects... and i was wondering whether the moral idea of a human being is
> >>>>> universal... i read the blog you gave the link to..thanks..its a very
> >>>>> interesting book.. looking forward to read it... i guess its similar in the
> >>>>> way that there is a loss of history i suppose in forming standards..sort of
> >>>>> a bleak start... but since i have little idea of what comprised the world
> >>>>> in the book..i feel unable to draw the connection to my problem... perhaps
> >>>>> you could...and forgive my slow uptake but i couldnt exactly place the
> >>>>> quote in my post... the man eats lion one... is it a paradox on mans high
> >>>>> moral being?? ... i am not able to articulate correctly... sorry for giving
> >>>>> this weird reply..it doesnt quite make sense.. perhaps it will make sense
> >>>>> in the morning...
>
> >>>>> On Fri, Jun 15, 2012 at 5:53 PM, pol.science kid < wrote:
>
> >>>>>> oh ..um..i just re read my post... in my post.. the line with china
> >>>>>> and cold war... i meant to ask what was responsible for  N korea turning
> >>>>>> that way.. sorry for eating the line.. was a bit tipsy... and ill get back
> >>>>>> to you on your reply soon...
>
> >>>>>> On Fri, Jun 15, 2012 at 4:49 PM, gabbydott < wrote:
>
> >>>>>>> Are you saying that the author of this book is suggesting that only
> >>>>>>> moral order has turned human life upside down and left to right
> >>>>>>> compared to how other worlds conceive of theirs? As in the quotation of the
> >>>>>>> preface of another book dealing with this subject which is commented on
> >>>>>>> here  http://gerryco23.wordpress.**com/2010/07/12/riddley-walker/<http://gerryco23.wordpress.com/2010/07/12/riddley-walker/>
> >>>>>>> ** :
> >>>>>>> Jesus said: Blessed the lion that the man will devour, and the lion
> >>>>>>> will become man. And loathsome is the man that the lion will devour, and
> >>>>>>> the lion will become man.
> >>>>>>> I would argue that this is too flat an argumantation. Need to do
> >>>>>>> something now. Sorry, that I can't expand on it now.
>
> >>>>>>> On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 8:21 PM, pol.science kid  wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>> I was reading and suddenly i remembered a horrifying detail... just
> >>>>>>>> recently this book has been out... Escape from camp14.. i forget the
> >>>>>>>> authors name.. i am wondering if i have already made a post on this.. have
> >>>>>>>> i...? ..if yes.. sorry for the repetition.. if no.. i just cant get it out
> >>>>>>>> of my head.. the account of this horrid life in North Korea... the Cold
> >>>>>>>> War.. Russia.. China... ? The Western World even...Its strange the people
> >>>>>>>> living under a fear regime for so long... brings images of 1984(book)...
> >>>>>>>> But my issue here is a different one... I didnt read the book.. cos i dont
> >>>>>>>> have it.. but i read about it... maybe you guys can google it and see.. i
> >>>>>>>> am too lazy to post a link here :)...  But .this..guy who escapes.. he was
> >>>>>>>> born in the camp... and one thing he reveals is that he caused the death of
> >>>>>>>> his mother, and siblings... or both parents.. and some relatives.. to gain
> >>>>>>>> favor with the authorities... somethng like that is pretty shocking to
> >>>>>>>> us... but.. how would you judge this man.. maybe we dont have a right to
> >>>>>>>> judge him..but just hypothetically to have a discussion.. there is no
> >>>>>>>> morality here is there... now this man.. doesnt he seem to be comlpetely
> >>>>>>>> amoral... not immoral... maybe immoral to us... the review said in the book
> >>>>>>>> this man shows no compunction for what he did..i am just trying to concieve
> >>>>>>>> of these worlds...where... being human is comletely different... what
> >>>>>>>> informs these worlds... the people who comprise it... ?..what say you guys..
>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> EverComing
>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> EverComing
>
> >>> --
> >>> EverComing