Re: Mind's Eye self forgiveness

Okay. But posts reflect the poster. Then again, I have changed my mind
about so many issues, my history is inconsistent. It could be
development, however.

Settled facts can be disputed based on point of view.

Lacking an aristocracy, America has developed its own class structure-
generally based on money. Fluid- but then that's a common fate of rise
and fall. More can be discerned of character during the fall stage,
i.e. try to be graceful or manly or somesuch thing. Anyway,
politicians of all persuasions form part of the class system-
understandable, since we are all immigrants- nationality now
overshadowed by race and also gender.

I vote for conservatives or underdogs. Does it matter? Not really.

Lawyers love the tangle of it all- it's their livliehood to joust as
they are trained adversaries. Fine when they are yours- and win! :-)
Terrible mess to divorce an attorney.

Yes- I can see the "hot and brusque"- but no matter. Better passion
than a cold fish, I say.





On Jul 26, 7:48 pm, Vam <atewari2...@gmail.com> wrote:.
> It's cool, Gabby ! I discarded the Buddha or ZenMaster model for myself
> long back.
>
> Rigs, the term reek was for the post, not the person, if you overlooked.
>
> Facts, in context, are sub-events summed up over time to yield a fairly
> complete view of the event or trend that is thence indisputable. Mostly
> they also yield clues to the causal forces at work.
>
> I see no reason why I should see the politician in the lowest denomination,
> and accept their dishonest ways as the new " normal." Bill Moyers is right
> in pointing out their collusion with corporates, hereditary oligarchs and
> media, as the elite clique that set up their regime over a country and
> population, looped in for and amongst themselves, democracy or not. That
> clever remnant from millennium past, from that nature by which might is
> right, continues with accentuating iniquity and injustice which the law
> courts can never deal with. It's very much in my eye, without raising any
> ideology or -ism whatsoever. I am happy working at means to lend that
> awareness amongst those I connect with.
>
> As to my own nature, occasionally hot or brusque, is dedicated to the world
> around and situations I am in. It works for me because I have no interest
> in the chips pile on the table !
>
>
>
> On Thursday, July 26, 2012 10:02:10 PM UTC+5:30, gabbydott wrote:
>
> > Don't trace him back to his Shere Khan nature, when he defines the facts
> > for us, Rigsy! ;) < joke, Vam, this is meant to be classified as humour!
>
> > On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 3:36 PM, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> The raccoons would enjoy this salmon also- should I dump it in the
> >> nearby creek? Actually, I am giving at least half of this away to
> >> family friends.
>
> >> What do facts permit? One might want to define the "cynic" as a
> >> disappointed idealist but I think an idealist should seek reality and
> >> not some rosy-colored view. Philosophers, scientists and serious
> >> authors and artist are often spurred by skepticism, aren't they? As
> >> for politicians, what are they after- be honest. And as for the
> >> theologians, paradise remains unproved.
>
> >> It is not the mark of a gentleman to accuse a female of reeking, by
> >> the way.
>
> >> On Jul 25, 4:23 pm, Vam <atewari2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > Your post reeked of cynicism, to me. The flow > here, now is this > but
> >> > it's always been > so, oh hell ... let me say something else.
>
> >> > The facts hardly permit any confusion or doubt, or despair in matters
> >> like
> >> > these. Just like environment. Or, clear evidence of depletion of ice
> >> cover
> >> > in Greenland.
>
> >> > There was a time salmons outnumbered our need. Then, it depleted, both
> >> by
> >> > degraded environment and mindless poaching. Now, it's becoming scarce.
> >> It
> >> > needs protection, sanctuaries and controlled harvesting. There is no
> >> doubt
> >> > that if not done today, they'll get as rare as the whales and the
> >> dolphins.
>
> >> > But did the Japanese heed ? Will the Republicans, now preparing to block
> >> > loans for renewal energy infrastructure ? We all know what is the right
> >> > thing to do. And we all should be pressing hard on doing, saying and
> >> > contemplating to the best we can. The cynicism is misplaced, no matter
> >> how
> >> > old we are.
>
> >> > The bears have as much need and right to their morsels, perhaps more,
> >> than
> >> > humans.
>
> >> > On Wednesday, July 25, 2012 6:33:57 PM UTC+5:30, rigsy03 wrote:
>
> >> > > The salmon- wild Alaskan- have a fantastic life plan- truly beautiful.
> >> > > Unlike humans or the various rationales devised in human eras/
> >> > > societies, animals are really quite civilized. Hopefully the Pebbles
> >> > > mine project (Frontline-PBS-7-24-12) will be rejected and denied a
> >> > > permit so one of the last pure salmon runs can continue- but money/
> >> > > greed/power has already proved itself throughout history. Why
> >> > > generation after generation believes these "rationales" is beyond me-
> >> > > what's worse, no one escapes contributing to the fraud of it all.
> >> > > Anyway, have also seen the ragged end of the salmon's journey= bear
> >> > > food. You have to net them before they enter the rivers- at their
> >> > > peak.
>
> >> > > On Jul 24, 5:31 am, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > > > The Serenity Prayer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serenity_Prayer)
> >> > > comes to
> >> > > > mind at this stage. This would also fit better our pink bubble
> >> warrior
> >> > > > Molly, who needs to give advice to her friend. - Let's not forget
> >> the
> >> > > > purpose of this thread, or, as Rigsy reminds us, the path salmons
> >> take
> >> > > or
> >> > > > not take.
>
> >> > > > On Sun, Jul 22, 2012 at 9:44 AM, James <ashkas...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > > > > I was just reading the news, a rare occurrence, another reminder
> >> why..
> >> > > > > Somewhere under contempt, anger, and shame is will, a couple leaps
> >> > > further
> >> > > > > to hope, pride gets a bad treatment in the process but is replaced
> >> > > with
> >> > > > > resolve. One matter stands out though. That is the role of
> >> acceptance
> >> > > and
> >> > > > > how it can develop into affirmations, I think that comes into the
> >> > > resolve
> >> > > > > stage.
>
> >> > > > > Just a few of my reflections, I am certainly open to input.
>
> >> > > > > On 7/21/2012 10:21 PM, James wrote:
>
> >> > > > >> And predators of every sort, it is hard to resist the urge to
> >> stand
> >> > > in
> >> > > > >> front like a wolverine at times. Some things turn the stomach,
> >> white
> >> > > > >> heat is one, but it pays to understand the flame.
>
> >> > > > >> On 7/20/2012 2:22 AM, Allan H wrote:
>
> >> > > > >>> Personally I do take my personal responsibility very
> >> seriously,, but
> >> > > I
> >> > > > >>> am not preoccupied or at least I hope.. I do think there is a
> >> > > certain
> >> > > > >>> responsibility one has to keep vigilance and pull the fire alarm
> >> > > when
> >> > > > >>> there is a 'fire' unfortunately there are a lot of fires..
> >> > > > >>> Allan
>
> >> > > > >>> On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 6:30 AM, James <ashkas...@gmail.com
> >> > > > >>> <mailto:ashkas...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> >> > > > >>> Not sure if they would like the term "preoccupation" with the
> >> > > > >>> connotation of cultural values laden judgment but it sounds
> >> fair.
> >> > > > >>> Mostly his perspective sounds reasonable given circumstances
> >> and I
> >> > > > >>> can relate to a bit of it, but "morbid" seemed the best way to
> >> > > > >>> describe the challenges. For one this person takes personal
> >> > > > >>> responsibility very seriously but gives no sign of it because
> >> it is
> >> > > > >>> a "vulnerability" people will take advantage of, he seems to
> >> have an
> >> > > > >>> automatic fear response to happiness (seems like hypervigilance
> >> but
> >> > > > >>> might be pathological fear), is very opposed personally to
> >> > > > >>> spontaneous or excited behaviors but sees it as self discipline
> >> and
> >> > > > >>> carefully manages what thoughts or emotions are shown. Much of
> >> this
> >> > > > >>> sounds like he took life's lessons a little too seriously from a
> >> > > > >>> young age, but that is where identity comes into play. The
> >> > > > >>> existential definition that I think results by one's experience
> >> with
> >> > > > >>> the world, and how that shapes subconscious behaviors, not
> >> known but
> >> > > > >>> responded to automatically. I think that is where much of the
> >> > > > >>> difficulty comes from in his case, the nature of his existence
> >> > > > >>> defined by the world, and the resistant morbid part is the
> >> response
> >> > > > >>> to those pressures. Where the world judged him harshly for being
> >> > > > >>> different he learned most couldn't find waldo on a plain sheet
> >> of
> >> > > > >>> paper. After listing a number of things that are different he
> >> had a
> >> > > > >>> smile and pointed out that his challenges are not so different
> >> from
> >> > > > >>> that of many others except the circumstances (existential
> >> definition
> >> > > > >>> I take it) in sum were not typical enough for conventional
> >> answers,
> >> > > > >>> they all lead back to square one.
>
> >> > > > >>> It was strange to hear strong emotions from such a disciplined
> >> > > > >>> person but I found it somewhat relieving, he still doesn't fit
> >> the
> >> > > > >>> mold on offer, it is inspiring. So I'm not sure what kind of
> >> advice
> >> > > > >>> to give or ask about, perhaps there is more perspective out
> >> there
> >> > > > >>> somewhere?
>
> >> > > > >>> On 7/19/2012 6:35 PM, rigsy03 wrote:
>
> >> > > > >>> I had another thought on self-forgiveness/morbid preoccupation:
> >> One
> >> > > > >>> may have lost all perspective and forgotten the suffering in
> >> this
> >> > > > >>> world and neglected to count the blessings. Then it also
> >> depends on
> >> > > > >>> one's culture which might inflict a very distorted view of
> >> > > > >>> anything it
> >> > > > >>> choses so the individual doesn't know any better. Families can
> >> > > > >>> also be
> >> > > > >>> so dysfunctional that normal doesn't exist or develop properly.
>
> >> > > > >>> Not sure the doctors are making profits as much as insurance and
> >> > > > >>> drug
> >> > > > >>> companies, shrinks and "counsellors". Then, the attorneys!
>
> >> > > > >>> On Jul 19, 11:44 am, Allan H<allanh1...@gmail.com
> >> > > > >>> <mailto:allanh1...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> >> > > > >>> Morbid would be an excessive preoccupation with and event or
> >> > > > >>> sin.. Finally
> >> > > > >>> started to figure it out..
>
> >> > > > >>> Yes I know of the excessive cost of people taking advantage
> >> > > > >>> of a program
> >> > > > >>> that can be for free. When I came into AA the rich mans
> >> > > > >>> programs were just
> >> > > > >>> starting.. I was to poor so
>
> ...
>
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