Mind's Eye Re: Can there be any rational discussion of religion?

Dogma/Laws are man-made to deal with injustice and assert control-
but, by whom? I think the concept of God is our trump card beyond
humans as all are flawed.

On Aug 10, 9:11 am, Lee Douglas <leerevdoug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> True, faith cannot be reasonsed out, dogma can and should be though, and
> although faith in and of itself is surly sans reason, reasoning can be
> applied to bits and bobs.
>
> To simplyfy.
>
> I belive in God, I can't reasonably tell you why, but I can explain my
> reasoning behind what it is I belive about God.
>
>
>
> On Friday, 10 August 2012 14:32:33 UTC+1, rigsy03 wrote:
> > Faith cannot be reasoned out. It is belief versus reality. It is also
> > a choice like the acceptance of various emotions.
>
> > On Aug 9, 9:06 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > A Muslim sect has been found keeping most of its members living
> > > underground in squalor (Russia).  Charges will include child cruelty.
> > > I'm always depressed when people want to discuss beliefs in their blue
> > > and white rabbit-gods and particularly when  official religions demand
> > > respect.  I think rationality disappears in religious discussion and
> > > this essentially hides pretty brutal power-plays that are about
> > > genetic-hierarchical manipulation.  This doesn't leave me dismissive
> > > of all religion - we should be looking for more sub-conscious
> > > recognition of peace and the wiles of self-deception.
>
> > > Veblen argued (1910 ish) that the leisure class exert a control fraud
> > > on the rest of us and that economics is essentially religious.
> > > Handing political power to religious freaks as in practical Islam is
> > > as mad as the days of the utterly disgusting Crusades, but one can see
> > > the appeal of a way of life free of clown capitalism at the same
> > > time.  Religion was once much more closely related to freeing people
> > > from he master class - many of its early words are about freedom from
> > > debt, debt peonage and coming home from indenture in jubilee.  The
> > > real tale of kicking over the tables of temple money-lenders has some
> > > parallels with current attacks on the USD as the reserve currency.
>
> > > I hope it is clear I have plenty of time for, say, RP and Molly and I
> > > miss Orn a lot.  Keeping ourselves honest on religion is difficult -
> > > rigsy often says, effectively, debate is circular and more or less
> > > meaningless, perhaps because we have cut our mutual understanding in
> > > advance.  My own interest is why so much performed rationality is
> > > really religious - economics is the classic.  The Governor of the Bank
> > > of England is now saying no one knows what will happen in Europe and
> > > hence no one knows what will happen in Blighty.  Instead of resigning
> > > as a hapless incompetent he is urging the Olympic spirit on the
> > > nation.  He looks like a vicar in classic C of E mode.
>
> > > There are various tricks in religious argumentation like 'seeing the
> > > light' as a ersult of introspection not amenable to demonstration.
> > > Yet we need vision of some other way to live.  I wonder what religion
> > > might be without such standard manipulations?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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