Mind's Eye Re: Different points of view are all true

Workers cannot bleed a rock if their company flops. Our city figured
retirement and pensions with a flawed computer model, for instance,
but I think we're stuck as the legal battles would be onerous- except
for the bank accounts of the lawyers. There are endless examples of
people doing X and Y and never being rewarded with Z.

People in The Middle Ages were content with that conception of faith,
the universe, geography, etc. The West has its own fantasies it
markets through colonialism and insistence on democracy for all,
doesn't it? Full-exposure to truth except for Wikileaks and other rug-
pullers.

History that is now taught includes the "truth" of the losers.

Culture sets up a model and most just play along.

On Aug 22, 7:24 am, Lee Douglas <leerevdoug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Heh yeah Rigsy, some would insist that a cube is a square, they would be
> wrong to do so, but i guess some would still try huh.
>
> All truths matter both absolute and relaitive.
>
> Some absolute truths are what we try to teach in schools, how would you
> feel if your wage packet was light?  I worked X hours at Y rate, therefore
> I should be paid Z.  Yes indeed I do not think many workers would be
> willing to suggest this truth be subjective.
>
> Most subjective truths only matter umm subjectivly.  Are, as I suspect,
> Leeds Utd the greatest footbal team in the world?
>
> Subjective truth, as it's name suggest has no ultimate authority and largly
> I would agree with Andrew and say that such truths are about as valid as
> each other(until they become objective). Objective truths owe there
> objectivity to evidance that anyone can see and make up their own minds on,
> so I would say that empirical facts are the ultmate authority.
>
> Yes indeed, I think that most of what we call truth can be called
> subjective, but there are some objective truths out there.
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, 22 August 2012 13:03:24 UTC+1, rigsy03 wrote:
> > Some will insist a cube is a square or twiddle with perspective.
>
> > When does absolute truth matter? Is truth forever subject to
> > correction? Who is the final authority of truth?
>
> > Eye witnesses are a weak defense. Justice makes mistakes.
>
> > People change their minds and feelings over time. (Think of divorce as
> > an example. I love you can become I hate you, etc.) Then truth becomes
> > a matter of taste or fancy rather than an objective reality.
>
> > Scientific truths are constantly subjected to corrections.
>
> > Outside of a short list, everything is up for grabs.
>
> > On Aug 22, 5:05 am, Lee Douglas <leerevdoug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Yes yes I get this, I don't agree but I get it.
>
> > > Some truth is subjective, and some is objective.  Whether you see the
> > > elephant as just the leg, the tusk the ear or the trunk is irrelevant to
> > > what the objective truth of the elephant is.  So your position colours
> > your
> > > POV, this does not automaticaly make your POV valid.  It means only that
> > > you have not yet seen the thing from all angles.
>
> > > There is a problem with makeing statments of generalisations, they are
> > > inveriably wrong, as things really do not follow general principles.  To
> > > say for example 'I claim that all truths are subjective ONLY' is a
> > massive
> > > mistake.  It takes only one tiny bit of evidance, logic or counter
> > argument
> > > to show just one little objective truth, for that statement to be false.
> > > **
> > > I belive I have already shown that there exist objective truths, i.e. a
> > > square is made up of 4 equal lines.  Now feel free to counter that, good
> > > luck.
>
> > > On Wednesday, 22 August 2012 10:31:37 UTC+1, andrew vecsey wrote:
> > > > I claim that all truths are subjective only. After all we only have
> > our
> > > > own eyes and our own minds to obtain our own POVs and to claim what is
> > true
> > > > and what is not. If your POV is from earth, then the sun goes around
> > the
> > > > earth rising in the east and setting in the west. If you look on
> > earth`s
> > > > motion from another POV, then the earth rotates around the sun. From
> > the
> > > > universe`s POV, then it moves still in a different way. All are true,
> > > > depending on the POV.
>
> > > > On Wednesday, August 22, 2012 10:44:44 AM UTC+2, Lee Douglas wrote:
>
> > > >> But that make no sense at all.  Like the blind men and the elephant,
> > > >> better to say that differnt seemingly contradictory POV's  may appear
> > to be
> > > >> true.  However this is due to not having all of the data avaliable
> > from
> > > >> which to make your mind up.  If it is objective truth you are talking
> > about
> > > >> then a square cannot at the same time be discribed as a circle and
> > yet
> > > >> remain true.  If it is subjective truth then this is due to one
> > subjectivie
> > > >> position.
>
> > > >> On Tuesday, 21 August 2012 18:04:56 UTC+1, andrew vecsey wrote:
>
> > > >>> The different paths of earth thru space is like the blind men
> > describing
> > > >>> the elephant.
> > > >>> The density of the vacuum is like negatives of photographs.
> > > >>> We are talking about examples of different points of views of one
> > thing
> > > >>> that give contradictory descriptions, and each description claiming
> > to be
> > > >>> the true description.
>
> > > >>> On Tuesday, August 21, 2012 5:49:38 PM UTC+2, Lee Douglas wrote:
>
> > > >>>> Or differant points of view can all claim to be true even though
> > > >>>> enivitably only one is?
>
> > > >>>> It's sorta like the 5 blind men and the one elephant isn't it?
>
> > > >>>> Meh!  Bedsies just what kind of truths are we talking now?
>
> > > >>>> On Tuesday, 21 August 2012 16:30:01 UTC+1, andrew vecsey wrote:
>
> > > >>>>> Different points of views can be all true. Comments and discussion
> > > >>>>> greatly appreciated
>
> > > >>>>> For example,
>
> > > >>>>>    - The earth does NOT rotate around sun.
> > > >>>>>    - The emptiness of a vacuum is more dense than the most dense
> > > >>>>>    matter.
> > > >>>>>    - atoms and their electrons have physical shapes that determine
> > > >>>>>    their characteristics.
>
> > > >>>>> In the essay below, it is argued that different points of view can
> > all
> > > >>>>> be true.
>
> > > >>>>>  *Universe** centric point of view*
> > > >>>>> From an earth centric point of view, the sun and universe rotate
> > > >>>>> around the earth.
> > > >>>>> From a sun centric point of view, the earth rotates around the
> > sun.
> > > >>>>> From a universe centric point of view, the earth does not rotate
> > > >>>>> around the sun but travels along with it in a sinusoidal swinging
> > from side
> > > >>>>> to side but always going in a forward path. It never actually
> > turns around
> > > >>>>> 360 degrees and goes the other way, like it does in the sun
> > centric view.This repetitive swinging from one side of the sun to the other
> > side appears
> > > >>>>> from the sun's point of view to be an orbital, but from a
> > universal point
> > > >>>>> of view, it is sinusoidal. The earth is always being pushed
> > towards the
> > > >>>>> sun. When it is on the front side of it, the push towards the sun
> > acts to
> > > >>>>> decelerate it. When it is at the sun's back side, the push towards
> > the sun
> > > >>>>> accelerates it forward. When it is on one side of the sun, the
> > push towards
> > > >>>>> the sun pushes it towards the other side. The earth follows the
> > sun like a
> > > >>>>> child running circles around his father as they are both walking.
> > The earth
> > > >>>>> spins at 463 m/s at its equator making it look from our stationary
> > earth
> > > >>>>> that the sun and the universe rotate around the earth.  The sun
> > and
> > > >>>>> the earth travel 250 km/s thru the galaxy. The earth travels at 30
> > km/s
> > > >>>>> around the sun. That makes the earth's path thru space non
> > orbital.
>
> > > >>>>> ***An inside-out point of view*
>
> > > >>>>> Everyday experience indicates that mass is denser than the space
> > it
> > > >>>>> moves in. We are accustomed and taught to think that the fabric of
> > our
> > > >>>>> space is a vacuum of nothing and the particles of mass in it are
> > made from
> > > >>>>> matter. We are used to seeing matter as black solid balls moving
> > in a white
> > > >>>>> empty space. This is analogous to solids and liquids in an
> > environment of
> > > >>>>> air. The observed behavior of light, gravity and inertia of mass
> > requires
> > > >>>>> that the surrounding fabric of space be much denser than the
> > masses that
> > > >>>>> move around in it. It requires that mass be much less dense than
> > space.
> > > >>>>> With an inside-out point of view, mass in space are like bubbles
> > in a
> > > >>>>> liquid. It is like looking at the negatives of photographs.
>
> > > >>>>> *A** Mechanistic point of view**
> > > >>>>> *
> > > >>>>> By proposing shapes and motion to atoms that reflect forms and
> > > >>>>> movements observed in our everyday reality, an understanding of
> > the
> > > >>>>> fundamental unobserved particles of our universe is attained. A
> > mechanism
> > > >>>>> is proposed for the forces of gravity, inertia and the EM fields
> > as well as
> > > >>>>> for electricity, magnetism and radiation, all reflecting
> > mechanisms that we
> > > >>>>> see in our everyday reality. By this, an understanding of the
> > fundamental
> > > >>>>> forces is attained.
>
> > > >>>>> For an animation of the earth`s motion thru space, see video at
> > the 6
> > > >>>>> minute mark of the following video at.
> > > >>>>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnMQwPpbO74
>
> > > >>>>> "As you go away from your sun you will see that the sun is moving
> > thru
> > > >>>>> space ten times faster than the earth is moving around it. Then
> > you will
> > > >>>>> finally see that the earth does not rotate around the sun like
> > you once
> > > >>>>> thought it did but follows it with a wavering path going always
> > forward and
> > > >>>>> never backward."- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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