Yes yes I get this, I don't agree but I get it.
Some truth is subjective, and some is objective. Whether you see the elephant as just the leg, the tusk the ear or the trunk is irrelevant to what the objective truth of the elephant is. So your position colours your POV, this does not automaticaly make your POV valid. It means only that you have not yet seen the thing from all angles.
There is a problem with makeing statments of generalisations, they are inveriably wrong, as things really do not follow general principles. To say for example 'I claim that all truths are subjective ONLY' is a massive mistake. It takes only one tiny bit of evidance, logic or counter argument to show just one little objective truth, for that statement to be false.
I belive I have already shown that there exist objective truths, i.e. a square is made up of 4 equal lines. Now feel free to counter that, good luck.
On Wednesday, 22 August 2012 10:31:37 UTC+1, andrew vecsey wrote:
I claim that all truths are subjective only. After all we only have our own eyes and our own minds to obtain our own POVs and to claim what is true and what is not. If your POV is from earth, then the sun goes around the earth rising in the east and setting in the west. If you look on earth`s motion from another POV, then the earth rotates around the sun. From the universe`s POV, then it moves still in a different way. All are true, depending on the POV.--
On Wednesday, August 22, 2012 10:44:44 AM UTC+2, Lee Douglas wrote:But that make no sense at all. Like the blind men and the elephant, better to say that differnt seemingly contradictory POV's may appear to be true. However this is due to not having all of the data avaliable from which to make your mind up. If it is objective truth you are talking about then a square cannot at the same time be discribed as a circle and yet remain true. If it is subjective truth then this is due to one subjectivie position.
On Tuesday, 21 August 2012 18:04:56 UTC+1, andrew vecsey wrote:The different paths of earth thru space is like the blind men describing the elephant.
The density of the vacuum is like negatives of photographs.
We are talking about examples of different points of views of one thing that give contradictory descriptions, and each description claiming to be the true description.
On Tuesday, August 21, 2012 5:49:38 PM UTC+2, Lee Douglas wrote:Or differant points of view can all claim to be true even though enivitably only one is?It's sorta like the 5 blind men and the one elephant isn't it?Meh! Bedsies just what kind of truths are we talking now?
On Tuesday, 21 August 2012 16:30:01 UTC+1, andrew vecsey wrote:Different points of views can be all true. Comments and discussion greatly appreciated
For example,
- The earth does NOT rotate around sun.
- The emptiness of a vacuum is more dense than the most dense matter.
- atoms and their electrons have physical shapes that determine their characteristics.
In the essay below, it is argued that different points of view can all be true.
Universe centric point of view
From an earth centric point of view, the sun and universe rotate around the earth.
From a sun centric point of view, the earth rotates around the sun.
From a universe centric point of view, the earth does not rotate around the sun but travels along with it in a sinusoidal swinging from side to side but always going in a forward path. It never actually turns around 360 degrees and goes the other way, like it does in the sun centric view. This repetitive swinging from one side of the sun to the other side appears from the sun's point of view to be an orbital, but from a universal point of view, it is sinusoidal. The earth is always being pushed towards the sun. When it is on the front side of it, the push towards the sun acts to decelerate it. When it is at the sun's back side, the push towards the sun accelerates it forward. When it is on one side of the sun, the push towards the sun pushes it towards the other side. The earth follows the sun like a child running circles around his father as they are both walking. The earth spins at 463 m/s at its equator making it look from our stationary earth that the sun and the universe rotate around the earth. The sun and the earth travel 250 km/s thru the galaxy. The earth travels at 30 km/s around the sun. That makes the earth's path thru space non orbital.
An inside-out point of view
Everyday experience indicates that mass is denser than the space it moves in. We are accustomed and taught to think that the fabric of our space is a vacuum of nothing and the particles of mass in it are made from matter. We are used to seeing matter as black solid balls moving in a white empty space. This is analogous to solids and liquids in an environment of air. The observed behavior of light, gravity and inertia of mass requires that the surrounding fabric of space be much denser than the masses that move around in it. It requires that mass be much less dense than space. With an inside-out point of view, mass in space are like bubbles in a liquid. It is like looking at the negatives of photographs.
A Mechanistic point of view
By proposing shapes and motion to atoms that reflect forms and movements observed in our everyday reality, an understanding of the fundamental unobserved particles of our universe is attained. A mechanism is proposed for the forces of gravity, inertia and the EM fields as well as for electricity, magnetism and radiation, all reflecting mechanisms that we see in our everyday reality. By this, an understanding of the fundamental forces is attained.For an animation of the earth`s motion thru space, see video at the 6 minute mark of the following video at. http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=pnMQwPpbO74 "As you go away from your sun you will see that the sun is moving thru space ten times faster than the earth is moving around it. Then you will finally see that the earth does not rotate around the sun like you once thought it did but follows it with a wavering path going always forward and never backward."
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