Allan
--
(
-- On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 3:13 AM, RP Singh <1234rp@gmail.com> wrote:
Ultimately all conscious acts and thought processes are due to neural
activity in the brain ,which being material in nature is bound by
laws.
--
On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 1:11 AM, andrew vecsey <andrewvecsey@gmail.com> wrote:
> That might be right for opening your hand. What about opening up your heart
> to someone you don`t particularly like, or opening your head to some thought
> you don`t like or to new ideas that are strange to you you don`t ? Or
> listening to your instincts and acting on them despite your intellect
> telling you not to.
>
>
> On Thursday, August 16, 2012 5:33:37 PM UTC+2, RP Singh wrote:
>>
>> All conscious thought processes and deliberations are the
>> manifestation of chemical activity in the physical brain , it is the
>> neural activity in the brain which appear as the will with its
>> consequent deliberations. I deliberate whether to open my hand or not
>> and ultimately choose the one , but all this process is preceded by
>> neural activity and the conscious deliberations and act are just the
>> manifestation of this. So ultimately I am bound by myself according to
>> my nature.
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 7:07 PM, RP Singh <123...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > I am feeling thirsty and I can choose to quench my thirst or delay it
>> > for some time , but why do I choose one and not the other ---simple, I
>> > have to follow God's will as if it was my choice i.e. free choice.
>> >
>> > On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 5:37 PM, Lee Douglas <leerev...@gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >> Indeed! Or I am thirsty and choose to get a drink later, or it is time
>> >> for
>> >> lunch but I choose to finish composing this one email before I choose
>> >> to go
>> >> eat.
>> >>
>> >> On Tuesday, 14 August 2012 12:48:05 UTC+1, RP Singh wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> I feel thirsty and go and take a glass of water , it is time for lunch
>> >>> and I go and have it --- this is freedom of choice ,consciously
>> >>> knowing and acting out the act.
>> >>>
>> >>> On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 5:02 PM, Lee Douglas <leerev...@gmail.com>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>> > You speak as if we had no choice, and that we simply obey the
>> >>> > programing
>> >>> > of
>> >>> > our bodies.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > I do get what you mean, I disagree, I think you wrong.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > We are again just going around in circles you and I RP, we must
>> >>> > endevour
>> >>> > to
>> >>> > brake it.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > So in an attempt at just that let me try it this way.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Let us stick to the machine analogy.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > If we humans are simply biological machines, what machine are we
>> >>> > akin
>> >>> > to?
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Clockwork?
>> >>> >
>> >>> > With a clock work device you have not many veriables, and things
>> >>> > must be
>> >>> > wound up in order for the machin to work, a period of winding,
>> >>> > working
>> >>> > and
>> >>> > winding again must occour for the mahcine to work.
>> >>> > So unlike a clockwork machine then.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Electirical.
>> >>> > In an electrical machine you need power source, and input settings
>> >>> > for
>> >>> > an
>> >>> > external force to imput commands, or changes.
>> >>> > So not unlike but not too similar to electric machines then.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Compturised machines.
>> >>> > The heart and soul of the computerised machine is the cpu, the
>> >>> > memory
>> >>> > and
>> >>> > the programing.
>> >>> > So maybe we are more akin to the computerised machine that the other
>> >>> > two?
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Or may be a little of each?
>> >>> >
>> >>> > We can say that the human machine is a self diagnosing, self
>> >>> > reparing
>> >>> > machine. But all of this is down to the programing. We have some
>> >>> > at
>> >>> > birth,
>> >>> > let us call this predisposition, but the majority of it is picked up
>> >>> > as
>> >>> > we
>> >>> > grow in a particular enviroment, but the more complex the machine
>> >>> > the
>> >>> > more
>> >>> > complex the programing needs to be. As we are constantly adding to
>> >>> > our
>> >>> > programing via external enviromental influences, there needs be a
>> >>> > way to
>> >>> > sort the dross from the gold. Indeed there is, our programing over
>> >>> > the
>> >>> > eons
>> >>> > has developed a 'conciousness'. This conciousness is what we use to
>> >>> > sotrt
>> >>> > and refine our programing, and conciouness being what it is, is
>> >>> > capable
>> >>> > deciding from distinct and differant possibilites, this ability then
>> >>> > is
>> >>> > freedom of choice. Our conciouness uses many tools in which to do
>> >>> > this,
>> >>> > morality and will amongst them, and of course it also takes note of
>> >>> > any
>> >>> > predispositions.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > We may be machines but we are conciouse, and it is this in which we
>> >>> > find
>> >>> > our
>> >>> > Self's burried.
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > On Tuesday, 14 August 2012 11:46:19 UTC+1, RP Singh wrote:
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> What you think and do is you as a organism that is responsible ,
>> >>> >> but
>> >>> >> you the organism are made of matter and it is from matter that all
>> >>> >> enterprise arise , as such all your actions arise from the working
>> >>> >> of
>> >>> >> your body and brain which also reacts to the outside environment.
>> >>> >> Through CBT it is the organism which is repairing itself and you
>> >>> >> are
>> >>> >> the puppet in the hands of this material body. You are the Front
>> >>> >> but
>> >>> >> are made to feel that you are all in all.
>> >>> >> Thoughts and actions arise from bio-chemical activity and the self
>> >>> >> is
>> >>> >> under the impression that he is free.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 3:58 PM, Lee Douglas <leerev...@gmail.com>
>> >>> >> wrote:
>> >>> >> > Okay there are two points on this.
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> > Yes of course genetic predisposition exists, but you make a
>> >>> >> > mistake
>> >>> >> > when
>> >>> >> > you
>> >>> >> > claim the strengh of it. It could be that a man is predisposed
>> >>> >> > to
>> >>> >> > cancer.
>> >>> >> > What this means is it is more likely that as he gets older his
>> >>> >> > chance
>> >>> >> > of
>> >>> >> > some cells becomeing cancerous is higher then the man who has no
>> >>> >> > genetic
>> >>> >> > predisposition towards cancer; what it is not, is a 100%
>> >>> >> > garentee.
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> > In a similar vein it may be that I am predisposed towards my
>> >>> >> > choice
>> >>> >> > in
>> >>> >> > child
>> >>> >> > rearing, but this is not a garentee that I will never smack my
>> >>> >> > child.
>> >>> >> > Genetic predisposition, not genetic garentee.
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> > Secondly.
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> > Yes all thought arises as a concequences of the mechanics of the
>> >>> >> > brain,
>> >>> >> > how
>> >>> >> > can it be otherwise. Yet what CBT does and meditaion and a hell
>> >>> >> > of a
>> >>> >> > lot of
>> >>> >> > mind exsercises is to elicit a physical change within the brain
>> >>> >> > to
>> >>> >> > complete
>> >>> >> > a physcolgical change. You have a circular effect happing.
>> >>> >> > Thought
>> >>> >> > is
>> >>> >> > made
>> >>> >> > by the mechanics of the brain, we know that damage to the brain
>> >>> >> > causes
>> >>> >> > changes to the pyscology of the human. Yet the tought 'I wish to
>> >>> >> > change'
>> >>> >> > can make a physical change to the brain. Change to will in
>> >>> >> > accordance
>> >>> >> > with
>> >>> >> > will.
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> > On Monday, 13 August 2012 17:12:33 UTC+1, RP Singh wrote:
>> >>> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> Whatever we think and whatever we do arises as a consequence of
>> >>> >> >> neural
>> >>> >> >> activity which precede the thought processes or rather the
>> >>> >> >> thought
>> >>> >> >> processes are a projection of this activity. When we are offered
>> >>> >> >> psycho-therapy our brain reacts to it first and the thought
>> >>> >> >> process
>> >>> >> >> is
>> >>> >> >> just the consequence , the efforts we make are a result of brain
>> >>> >> >> activity which precede them. What are we without our genes ?
>> >>> >> >> just
>> >>> >> >> nothing! What are we without the universe ? again nothing !
>> >>> >> >> Predisposition is just that, an inclination, without which there
>> >>> >> >> is
>> >>> >> >> no
>> >>> >> >> beginning. You have to start from somewhere and you don't do
>> >>> >> >> that
>> >>> >> >> from
>> >>> >> >> scratch , you have your predisposition.
>> >>> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 9:12 PM, Lee Douglas
>> >>> >> >> <leerev...@gmail.com>
>> >>> >> >> wrote:
>> >>> >> >> > Sorry RP, I have to call bullshit on this as you know I would.
>> >>> >> >> >
>> >>> >> >> >
>> >>> >> >> > You talk about genetic predisposition and envirmental learning
>> >>> >> >> > as
>> >>> >> >> > if
>> >>> >> >> > these
>> >>> >> >> > are rock solid. Let us for just a second remember the power
>> >>> >> >> > of
>> >>> >> >> > words
>> >>> >> >> > and
>> >>> >> >> > say that a predispostion is exaclty that, not a hard solid
>> >>> >> >> > rule
>> >>> >> >> > and
>> >>> >> >> > learnt
>> >>> >> >> > behavour can of course be unlearnt.
>> >>> >> >> >
>> >>> >> >> > When a man goes to a mind doctor for reasons of what ever
>> >>> >> >> > meantl
>> >>> >> >> > health
>> >>> >> >> > problems plauge him, he may be offerd CBT as an aid to getting
>> >>> >> >> > his
>> >>> >> >> > head
>> >>> >> >> > back
>> >>> >> >> > in order. How is it that these technichs work if we are
>> >>> >> >> > really
>> >>> >> >> > all
>> >>> >> >> > fully
>> >>> >> >> > bound and fetterd by our genes and our enviroment?
>> >>> >> >> >
>> >>> >> >> >
>> >>> >> >> >
>> >>> >> >> > On Monday, 13 August 2012 11:54:12 UTC+1, RP Singh wrote:
>> >>> >> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> >> What I would do is limited to my nature and as Lee and I are
>> >>> >> >> >> made
>> >>> >> >> >> up
>> >>> >> >> >> differently his choice would be different , but that would
>> >>> >> >> >> be in
>> >>> >> >> >> line
>> >>> >> >> >> with the choice towards which he is genetically predisposed
>> >>> >> >> >> or
>> >>> >> >> >> environmentally learned. What I mean is that will is a
>> >>> >> >> >> consequence
>> >>> >> >> >> of
>> >>> >> >> >> thought processes which end up in making a choice.
>> >>> >> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> >> On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 3:22 PM, AmandaRheen
>> >>> >> >> >> <Machiav...@gmail.com>
>> >>> >> >> >> wrote:
>> >>> >> >> >> > What I understand you to be saying is merely that free will
>> >>> >> >> >> > is
>> >>> >> >> >> > limited
>> >>> >> >> >> > to
>> >>> >> >> >> > the number of possible choices that are available to the
>> >>> >> >> >> > organism
>> >>> >> >> >> > within
>> >>> >> >> >> > the
>> >>> >> >> >> > total capacities of the material matter of the organism.
>> >>> >> >> >> > The
>> >>> >> >> >> > part
>> >>> >> >> >> > where
>> >>> >> >> >> > you
>> >>> >> >> >> > stop making sense to me is
>> >>> >> >> >> >
>> >>> >> >> >> > " If you think that is freedom , then you are really the
>> >>> >> >> >> > master of yourself. " in context of the example you used
>> >>> >> >> >> > with
>> >>> >> >> >> > Lee.
>> >>> >> >> >> >
>> >>> >> >> >> > That is "where I would have
>> >>> >> >> >> >
>> >>> >> >> >> > beaten up a child mercilessly you would not have because
>> >>> >> >> >> > you
>> >>> >> >> >> > are
>> >>> >> >> >> > not
>> >>> >> >> >> > free , if you think you are go ahead and shoot up your
>> >>> >> >> >> > enemy ,
>> >>> >> >> >> > but
>> >>> >> >> >> > of
>> >>> >> >> >> > course you would not because your reason would stop you
>> >>> >> >> >> > where
>> >>> >> >> >> > mine
>> >>> >> >> >> > would not."
>> >>> >> >> >> >
>> >>> >> >> >> > What does 'if you think that is freedom, the you are really
>> >>> >> >> >> > the
>> >>> >> >> >> > master
>> >>> >> >> >> > of
>> >>> >> >> >> > yourself' mean?
>> >>> >> >> >> >
>> >>> >> >> >> >
>> >>> >> >> >> >
>> >>> >> >> >> > On Thursday, July 12, 2012 10:53:49 PM UTC+10, RP Singh
>> >>> >> >> >> > wrote:
>> >>> >> >> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> >> >> The will to change yourself comes from within you , but
>> >>> >> >> >> >> those
>> >>> >> >> >> >> who
>> >>> >> >> >> >> are
>> >>> >> >> >> >> ignorant of the intricacies of nature think that they have
>> >>> >> >> >> >> brought
>> >>> >> >> >> >> about this change. When you breathe you think that you are
>> >>> >> >> >> >> freely
>> >>> >> >> >> >> doing so but the fact is that it is your body which is
>> >>> >> >> >> >> demanding
>> >>> >> >> >> >> it.
>> >>> >> >> >> >> Whether you are controlling your anger or not is in your
>> >>> >> >> >> >> hands
>> >>> >> >> >> >> but
>> >>> >> >> >> >> your decisions arise from the working of your brain which
>> >>> >> >> >> >> is
>> >>> >> >> >> >> matter
>> >>> >> >> >> >> and as such governed by neurological or biological
>> >>> >> >> >> >> principles.
>> >>> >> >> >> >> If
>> >>> >> >> >> >> freedom was real the whole machinery of the universe would
>> >>> >> >> >> >> have
>> >>> >> >> >> >> collapsed and there would have been mayhem everywhere ,
>> >>> >> >> >> >> but
>> >>> >> >> >> >> that
>> >>> >> >> >> >> is
>> >>> >> >> >> >> not the case and wherever you look you find harmony
>> >>> >> >> >> >> within.
>> >>> >> >> >> >> Whatever
>> >>> >> >> >> >> a
>> >>> >> >> >> >> man does it is his nature expressing itself , where I
>> >>> >> >> >> >> would
>> >>> >> >> >> >> have
>> >>> >> >> >> >> beaten up a child mercilessly you would not have because
>> >>> >> >> >> >> you
>> >>> >> >> >> >> are
>> >>> >> >> >> >> not
>> >>> >> >> >> >> free , if you think you are go ahead and shoot up your
>> >>> >> >> >> >> enemy ,
>> >>> >> >> >> >> but
>> >>> >> >> >> >> of
>> >>> >> >> >> >> course you would not because your reason would stop you
>> >>> >> >> >> >> where
>> >>> >> >> >> >> mine
>> >>> >> >> >> >> would not. If you think that is freedom , then you are
>> >>> >> >> >> >> really
>> >>> >> >> >> >> the
>> >>> >> >> >> >> master of yourself.
>> >>> >> >> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> >> > --
>> >>> >> >> >> >
>> >>> >> >> >> >
>> >>> >> >> >> >
>> >>> >> >> >
>> >>> >> >> > --
>> >>> >> >> >
>> >>> >> >> >
>> >>> >> >> >
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> > --
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > --
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>
> --
>
>
>
(
)
|_D Allan
Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
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