Re: Mind's Eye Re: Matter

I do not claim that all of the ideas that I present is new or original, although some of them are original as far as I am aware. You do not need to have your cookies turned on to access my science fiction book.  It is on a web site hosted by HarperCollins for authors who want to showcase their writings and get feedback on them. The address is http://authonomy.com  From there you can search and access many interesting books. Don`t be afraid. Do not let fear hinder and stop you from gaining new ideas and going to paces you have never been before. The best way to learn is to open up your heart and mind.     

On Friday, August 17, 2012 9:46:09 AM UTC+2, Allan Heretic wrote:

I hope I am open to new ideas Andrew,  as for yours ,, well I have seen them before and they have been around for decades now,,  they really are not new.  I am not interested in your videos as the presentation  is poor and the material is dull.  like I said earlier I am delighted to read what you present on the group..  I do admit that I laugh to myself when I see you giving as your sole reference is yourself,,

Went to download your e book only to find that : it was not possible,  the unknown sight wanted to down load cookies to track my computer activity (big NO NO) 3: my computer watch dog said to stay away from the sight.   

Andrew I have been online now for over 28 years and have learned to listen to the watchdogs. I do read very carefully what both you and RP have to say,, and I have to read carefully   literally because of diminished neural activity,  that does not make me stupid though.. it just means i must be careful with my reading,

Andrew being genuinely sorry for some one because they are closed minded does not even come close to making me a troll,  I feel the same way for my daughter  who also is very closed mined because of dogma and doctrine.

Allan

On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 9:41 PM, andrew vecsey <andrew...@gmail.com> wrote:

That might be right for opening your hand. What about opening up your heart to someone you don`t particularly like, or opening your head to some thought you don`t like or to new ideas that are strange to you you don`t ? Or listening to your instincts and acting on them despite your intellect telling you not to.

On Thursday, August 16, 2012 5:33:37 PM UTC+2, RP Singh wrote:

All conscious thought processes and deliberations are the
manifestation of chemical activity in the physical brain , it is the
neural activity in the brain which appear as the will with its
consequent deliberations. I deliberate whether to open my hand or not
and ultimately choose the one , but all this process is preceded by
neural activity and the conscious deliberations and act are just the
manifestation of this. So ultimately I am bound by myself according to
my nature.

On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 7:07 PM, RP Singh <123...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am feeling thirsty and I can choose to quench my thirst or delay it
> for some time , but why do I choose one and not the other ---simple, I
> have to follow God's will as if it was my choice i.e. free choice.
>

> On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 5:37 PM, Lee Douglas <leerev...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Indeed!  Or I am thirsty and choose to get a drink later, or it is time for
>> lunch but I choose to finish composing this one email before I choose to go
>> eat.
>>
>> On Tuesday, 14 August 2012 12:48:05 UTC+1, RP Singh wrote:
>>>
>>> I feel thirsty and go and take a glass of water , it is time for lunch
>>> and I go and have it --- this is freedom of choice ,consciously
>>> knowing and acting out the act.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 5:02 PM, Lee Douglas <leerev...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > You speak as if we had no choice, and that we simply obey the programing
>>> > of
>>> > our bodies.
>>> >
>>> > I do get what you mean, I disagree, I think you wrong.
>>> >
>>> > We are again just going around in circles you and I RP, we must endevour
>>> > to
>>> > brake it.
>>> >
>>> > So in an attempt at just that let me try it this way.
>>> >
>>> > Let us stick to the machine analogy.
>>> >
>>> > If we humans are simply biological machines, what machine are we akin
>>> > to?
>>> >
>>> > Clockwork?
>>> >
>>> > With a clock work device you have not many veriables, and things must be
>>> > wound up in order for the machin to work, a period of winding, working
>>> > and
>>> > winding again must occour for the mahcine to work.
>>> > So unlike a clockwork machine then.
>>> >
>>> > Electirical.
>>> > In an electrical machine you need power source, and input settings for
>>> > an
>>> > external force to imput commands, or changes.
>>> > So not unlike but not too similar to electric machines then.
>>> >
>>> > Compturised machines.
>>> > The heart and soul of the computerised machine is the cpu, the memory
>>> > and
>>> > the programing.
>>> > So maybe we are more akin to the computerised machine that the other
>>> > two?
>>> >
>>> > Or may be a little of each?
>>> >
>>> > We can say that the human machine is a self diagnosing, self reparing
>>> > machine.  But all of this is down to the programing.  We have some at
>>> > birth,
>>> > let us call this predisposition, but the majority of it is picked up as
>>> > we
>>> > grow in a particular enviroment, but the more complex the machine the
>>> > more
>>> > complex the programing needs to be.  As we are constantly adding to our
>>> > programing via external enviromental influences, there needs be a way to
>>> > sort the dross from the gold.  Indeed there is, our programing over the
>>> > eons
>>> > has developed a 'conciousness'.  This conciousness is what we use to
>>> > sotrt
>>> > and refine our programing, and conciouness being what it is, is capable
>>> > deciding from distinct and differant possibilites, this ability then is
>>> > freedom of choice.  Our conciouness uses many tools in which to do this,
>>> > morality and will amongst them, and of course it also takes note of any
>>> > predispositions.
>>> >
>>> > We may be machines but we are conciouse, and it is this in which we find
>>> > our
>>> > Self's burried.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Tuesday, 14 August 2012 11:46:19 UTC+1, RP Singh wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> What you think and do is you as a organism that is responsible , but
>>> >> you the organism are made of matter and it is from matter that all
>>> >> enterprise arise , as such all your actions arise from the working of
>>> >> your body and brain which also reacts to the outside environment.
>>> >> Through CBT it is the organism which is repairing itself and you are
>>> >> the puppet in the hands of this material body. You are the Front but
>>> >> are made to feel that you are all in all.
>>> >> Thoughts and actions arise from bio-chemical activity and the self is
>>> >> under the impression that he is free.
>>> >>
>>> >> On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 3:58 PM, Lee Douglas <leerev...@gmail.com>
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >> > Okay there are two points on this.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Yes of course genetic predisposition exists, but you make a mistake
>>> >> > when
>>> >> > you
>>> >> > claim the strengh of it.  It could be that a man is predisposed to
>>> >> > cancer.
>>> >> > What this means is it is more likely that as he gets older his chance
>>> >> > of
>>> >> > some cells becomeing cancerous is higher then the man who has no
>>> >> > genetic
>>> >> > predisposition towards cancer; what it is not, is a 100% garentee.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > In a similar vein it may be that I am predisposed towards my choice
>>> >> > in
>>> >> > child
>>> >> > rearing, but this is not a garentee that I will never smack my child.
>>> >> > Genetic predisposition, not genetic garentee.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Secondly.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Yes all thought arises as a concequences of the mechanics of the
>>> >> > brain,
>>> >> > how
>>> >> > can it be otherwise.  Yet what CBT does and meditaion and a hell of a
>>> >> > lot of
>>> >> > mind exsercises is to elicit a physical change within the brain to
>>> >> > complete
>>> >> > a physcolgical change.  You have a circular effect happing.  Thought
>>> >> > is
>>> >> > made
>>> >> > by the mechanics of the brain, we know that damage to the brain
>>> >> > causes
>>> >> > changes to the pyscology of the human.  Yet the tought 'I wish to
>>> >> > change'
>>> >> > can make a physical change to the brain.  Change to will in
>>> >> > accordance
>>> >> > with
>>> >> > will.
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> > On Monday, 13 August 2012 17:12:33 UTC+1, RP Singh wrote:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Whatever we think and whatever we do arises as a consequence of
>>> >> >> neural
>>> >> >> activity which precede the thought processes or rather the thought
>>> >> >> processes are a projection of this activity. When we are offered
>>> >> >> psycho-therapy our brain reacts to it first and the thought process
>>> >> >> is
>>> >> >> just the consequence , the efforts we make are a result of brain
>>> >> >> activity which precede  them.  What are we without our genes ? just
>>> >> >> nothing!  What are we without the universe ? again nothing !
>>> >> >> Predisposition is just that, an inclination, without which there is
>>> >> >> no
>>> >> >> beginning. You have to start from somewhere and you don't do that
>>> >> >> from
>>> >> >> scratch , you have your predisposition.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 9:12 PM, Lee Douglas <leerev...@gmail.com>
>>> >> >> wrote:
>>> >> >> > Sorry RP, I have to call bullshit on this as you know I would.
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > You talk about genetic predisposition and envirmental learning as
>>> >> >> > if
>>> >> >> > these
>>> >> >> > are rock solid.  Let us for just a second remember the power of
>>> >> >> > words
>>> >> >> > and
>>> >> >> > say that a predispostion is exaclty that, not a hard solid rule
>>> >> >> > and
>>> >> >> > learnt
>>> >> >> > behavour can of course be unlearnt.
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > When a man goes to a mind doctor for reasons of what ever meantl
>>> >> >> > health
>>> >> >> > problems plauge him, he may be offerd CBT as an aid to getting his
>>> >> >> > head
>>> >> >> > back
>>> >> >> > in order.  How is it that these technichs work if we are really
>>> >> >> > all
>>> >> >> > fully
>>> >> >> > bound and fetterd by our genes and our enviroment?
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > On Monday, 13 August 2012 11:54:12 UTC+1, RP Singh wrote:
>>> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> What I would do is limited to my nature and as Lee and I are made
>>> >> >> >> up
>>> >> >> >> differently his choice would be different , but  that would be in
>>> >> >> >> line
>>> >> >> >> with the choice towards which he is genetically predisposed or
>>> >> >> >> environmentally learned. What I mean is that will is a
>>> >> >> >> consequence
>>> >> >> >> of
>>> >> >> >> thought processes which end up in making a choice.
>>> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 3:22 PM, AmandaRheen
>>> >> >> >> <Machiav...@gmail.com>
>>> >> >> >> wrote:
>>> >> >> >> > What I understand you to be saying is merely that free will is
>>> >> >> >> > limited
>>> >> >> >> > to
>>> >> >> >> > the number of possible choices that are available to the
>>> >> >> >> > organism
>>> >> >> >> > within
>>> >> >> >> > the
>>> >> >> >> > total capacities of the material matter of the organism.  The
>>> >> >> >> > part
>>> >> >> >> > where
>>> >> >> >> > you
>>> >> >> >> > stop making sense to me is
>>> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> > "  If you think that is freedom , then you are really the
>>> >> >> >> > master of yourself. " in context of the example you used with
>>> >> >> >> > Lee.
>>> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> > That is    "where I would have
>>> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> > beaten up a child mercilessly  you would not have because you
>>> >> >> >> > are
>>> >> >> >> > not
>>> >> >> >> > free , if you think you are go ahead and shoot up your enemy ,
>>> >> >> >> > but
>>> >> >> >> > of
>>> >> >> >> > course you would not because your reason would stop you where
>>> >> >> >> > mine
>>> >> >> >> > would not."
>>> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> > What does 'if you think that is freedom, the you are really the
>>> >> >> >> > master
>>> >> >> >> > of
>>> >> >> >> > yourself' mean?
>>> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> > On Thursday, July 12, 2012 10:53:49 PM UTC+10, RP Singh wrote:
>>> >> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> >> The will to change yourself comes from within you , but those
>>> >> >> >> >> who
>>> >> >> >> >> are
>>> >> >> >> >> ignorant of the intricacies of nature think that they have
>>> >> >> >> >> brought
>>> >> >> >> >> about this change. When you breathe you think that you are
>>> >> >> >> >> freely
>>> >> >> >> >> doing so but the fact is that it is your body which is
>>> >> >> >> >> demanding
>>> >> >> >> >> it.
>>> >> >> >> >> Whether you are controlling your anger or not is in your hands
>>> >> >> >> >> but
>>> >> >> >> >> your decisions arise from the working of your brain which is
>>> >> >> >> >> matter
>>> >> >> >> >> and as such governed by neurological or biological principles.
>>> >> >> >> >> If
>>> >> >> >> >> freedom was real the whole machinery of the universe would
>>> >> >> >> >> have
>>> >> >> >> >> collapsed and there would have been mayhem everywhere , but
>>> >> >> >> >> that
>>> >> >> >> >> is
>>> >> >> >> >> not the case and wherever you look you find harmony within.
>>> >> >> >> >> Whatever
>>> >> >> >> >> a
>>> >> >> >> >> man does it is his nature expressing itself , where I would
>>> >> >> >> >> have
>>> >> >> >> >> beaten up a child mercilessly  you would not have because you
>>> >> >> >> >> are
>>> >> >> >> >> not
>>> >> >> >> >> free , if you think you are go ahead and shoot up your enemy ,
>>> >> >> >> >> but
>>> >> >> >> >> of
>>> >> >> >> >> course you would not because your reason would stop you where
>>> >> >> >> >> mine
>>> >> >> >> >> would not. If you think that is freedom , then you are really
>>> >> >> >> >> the
>>> >> >> >> >> master of yourself.
>>> >> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> > --
>>> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > --
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> > --
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>

--
 
 
 

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|_D Allan

Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.

--