Re: Mind's Eye Re: Life

Maybe "Thirteen Ways of Looking at a Blackbird" by the poet, Wallace
Stevens, is on-line- one might play with the notion of how we are
observed by blackbirds/crows. Actually, crows are highly intelligent
creatures and PBS devoted a program to them. Also, the trickster
raven. I think man/woman can develop a conscience- though not all do-
and that is what separates us from animals primarily though some
traits and behaviors are similar.

On Oct 24, 11:32 am, Lee Douglas <leerevdoug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Heh you are the master of the non answer, are you a politician?
>
> I'm going to assume then that yes crows are conscious, and what you may
> call the level of intelligence, and the intensity of the sense also mean
> yes.  Which makes your previous words contradictory.
>
> This phrase though, 'intensity of sense', makes no sense to me.  What does
> it mean then for consciousness for those beings who have more
> intense senses?
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, 24 October 2012 17:26:41 UTC+1, RP Singh wrote:
>
> > There is a matter of the intensity of the senses and the level of
> > intelligence , but , my friend , crows are beings and not machines -
> > ah , robots.
>
> > On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 9:48 PM, Lee Douglas <leerev...@gmail.com<javascript:>>
> > wrote:
> > > Ahhhh RP!  You don't change at all sir do you.
>
> > > There are of course many, many people and soooo much literature that
> > > disagrees with your wishy washyness here.  So much of it in fact that I
> > > don't even feel the need to defend my stance at all.  So let me just
> > finish
> > > by asking you two questions.
>
> > > Are crows conscious?
>
> > > Is a crows consciousness the same as a humans?
>
> > > On Wednesday, 24 October 2012 17:08:51 UTC+1, RP Singh wrote:
>
> > >> That which exist is Being , and consciousness does't have levels but
> > >> parameters -- sound , sight , etc.
>
> > >> On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 8:45 PM, Lee Douglas <leerev...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >> > The we disagree again RP.  Unless you and I have differing concepts
> > on
> > >> > what
> > >> > consciousness is?  My cats are conscious, would they have an
> > >> > understanding
> > >> > of God as a human does?  I suspect not, but they are surely conscious
> > >> > creatures.  It may be that I infer I am currently in discourse with
> > >> > another
> > >> > conscious entity, but I'd rather say it is empirically correct that I
> > am
> > >> > doing so rather than it is an inference that I can make.  After all
> > are
> > >> > we
> > >> > not members of the same species?  Without being too general, I think
> > >> > such
> > >> > inferences that I can make about myself as a human must also hold
> > true
> > >> > for
> > >> > other humans.  I must breathe to live, so can I infer that others of
> > my
> > >> > species must also do the same, or can I claim knowledge that it is
> > true?
>
> > >> > I get what you mean of course, I can ever only really say I think,
> > >> > therefore
> > >> > I am.  However when an inference takes place day in and day out, I
> > think
> > >> > it
> > >> > better to regard such 'truth' as knowledge.  Thus I know you are
> > >> > conscious,
> > >> > as you are human, and I know I am conscious.  My cats show all the
> > signs
> > >> > of
> > >> > being conscious  and indeed as you would expect of conscious beings.
> > the
> > >> > both exhibit different attitudes and personalities.
>
> > >> > So once again we are back to the following two questions.  What do
> > you
> > >> > mean
> > >> > by 'being', and at what level of 'consciousness' does this proof of
> > >> > yours
> > >> > need to be, to be proof?
>
> > >> > On Wednesday, 24 October 2012 12:20:34 UTC+1, RP Singh wrote:
>
> > >> >> As far as a person is concerned , there is only one consciousness ,
> > >> >> that is , his. Others are inferred, as also the existence of god.
>
> > >> >> On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 2:30 AM, Lee Douglas <leerev...@gmail.com>
> > >> >> wrote:
> > >> >> > Meh! I know plankton exist, is it conscious, or would you not call
> > it
> > >> >> > a
> > >> >> > being?  Or perhaps we can discuss levels of consciousness?  Nope I
> > >> >> > can't
> > >> >> > get
> > >> >> > with this argument RP, far too many holes in it.
>
> > >> >> > On Sunday, 23 September 2012 15:20:45 UTC+1, RP Singh wrote:
>
> > >> >> >> Conscious beings are a proof of God because otherwise an
> > unconscious
> > >> >> >> Being
> > >> >> >> could not be said to exist. Existence is the seed which finds its
> > >> >> >> growth in
> > >> >> >> life.
>
> > >> >> > --
>
> > >> > --
>
> > > --- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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