Re: Mind's Eye Re: Science and religion in modernity

What a pleasure to read these recents posts.//I've noticed the
politicians aren't saying much to retirees unless they think we are
over the hill and expendable- except we tend to VOTE.// I only have
one pair of reader glasses that are rx. I can get by with cheapies for
cooking and shopping but the eye doctor told me this was not a very
bright plan. One eye will not get the right whatever.// I have been
rearranging closets and dressers of late and can't remember where I
have switched things so it has been a riot trying to dress.//I did
come across a line of Matthew Arnold's that a little math goes a long
way for most of humanity and remembered my amazement walking into the
wrong classroom and seeing four or five blackboards covered with some
algebraic "work of art"- for it is an art.// I don't really need a lot
of money but it just costs a lot to live in western economies built on
self-sufficiency rather than tribal respect for the wise elders. :-)

On Oct 22, 12:22 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I have real problems remembering where I left my glasses (though not
> the ones with beer in) - even the IMF are considering the old Chicago
> Plan  (1936) for fairer money.  We live as paupers in the land of
> plenty in my view.http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/wp/2012/
> wp12202.pdf
>
> It's long and boring, but the gist is in the short conclusion.  It
> lacks your insight into what we are worshipping Al.
>
> On 22 Oct, 07:27, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > People are expected to change and grow. the errors of the  past are
> > meant to be out grown and evolved into a life that is kinder and
> > gentler with others coming to the forefront leaving the self centered
> > being behind,,  As I look around I am left wondering if this is what
> > is occurring,,  I see wealth being more and more concentrated in the
> > greedy few..  I see the traditional higher power being replaced by a
> > god of gold and wealth, that is worshiped with immense intensity..
> > an intensity that if applied to eliminating poverty ,, poverty would
> > be eliminated world wide within a few short years.
>
> > I have not forgotten anything to my knowledge Neil  I can remember my
> > childhood to date in great detail  recall is not the problem and fear
> > well that is more to keep me from getting killed..  I tend to like
> > invisibility  good idea
> > Allan
>
> > On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 11:36 PM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > With memories as bad as mine and yours Allan we have to invent for
> > > fear of remembering we have forgotten everything.
>
> > > On 21 Oct, 19:00, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> What happens when your whole concepts begin changing..   strange
> > >> things like the entire universe becomes small  and you have to go out
> > >> side its bounds..  Being a soul being what happens if the creation
> > >> soul is earlier than than the creation of the universe?
> > >> Allan
>
> > >> On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 6:09 PM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> > Science doesn't fascinate me in the way some literature and people can
> > >> > generally - I suspect the 'enthusiasm' of the popularisation of the
> > >> > subjects.  I concur on the predicament element rigs - insightive.  It
> > >> > seems a mistake to me to try and place god in some scientific-
> > >> > dimensional space (though I miss Pat) and I wonder instead whether the
> > >> > god-positions people hack out are as baseless as, say, phlogiston - we
> > >> > need some new thinking.
>
> > >> > Science and critical history have demonstrated much religious text is
> > >> > fable.  We repeatedly see that image management hides much that is
> > >> > foul under 'preaching' - here our current examples would be Jimmy
> > >> > Saville, Baby P, priestly paedophiles and Hillsborough (scouting in
> > >> > the US etc.) - but I'd say we may be on the brink of realising
> > >> > economics is equally vile.
>
> > >> > I can imagine spending a few weeks with a group living human-
> > >> > constrained lives in a collective of the future.  A woman kisses me
> > >> > goodbye.  She will not see me again because I'm off to a near-space
> > >> > terminal built off Alpha Proxima.  From there I'm relativity
> > >> > travelling to the edge of this universe to undertake genetic
> > >> > transformation beyond the gene-splicing that has allowed me to travel
> > >> > in space.  I see in 16 colours thanks to a shrimp and can enter
> > >> > cryostasis thanks to genes from Arctic fish.  I interface with
> > >> > machines and their learning directly.  I can no longer replicate as a
> > >> > human - etc.  Now I'm off to meet and form a collective with beings
> > >> > who perceive much of the world we can only postulate.  In traditional
> > >> > science fiction these 'dark beings' would be bastards intent on taking
> > >> > over the human world.  What I don't see is any focus on a future in
> > >> > which the rather soppy human-emotional ties are broken - a future in
> > >> > which ...
>
> > >> > One might ask how the creature I have become would get his jollies.
> > >> > One can go the other way in history and ask what religion has actually
> > >> > done.  We are not inventive enough about god.
>
> > >> > On 21 Oct, 14:50, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >> >> And some feel science is boring unless it can be translated into
> > >> >> everyday life in meaningful ways.
>
> > >> >> On Oct 20, 3:50 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >> >> > We travel at 60k plus miles an hour in the solar system and 500K
> > >> >> > through the galaxy in our system.  I tend to believe we can measure
> > >> >> > this kind of thing and that we are always left with questions like
> > >> >> > Allan's about before after and beyond.  Hitch-hikers' Guide probably
> > >> >> > gets to the irony.  Quite a few of us discount priests and text-
> > >> >> > authority without giving up on spirit.  Spinoza remains the clearest
> > >> >> > example.
>
> > >> >> > Creation stories end up in infinite regress - scientific and otherwise
> > >> >> > - and beg the question of 'what came before that' by positing a
> > >> >> > fiction of something that needs no creator or origin.  I don't believe
> > >> >> > god whipped up the Grand Canyon, but in the limits of our thinking
> > >> >> > something whipped up something that led to the evolution of our planet
> > >> >> > etc.  I tend to think science rather than literature may lead to a
> > >> >> > different way of seeing this and surviving until this is possible.
> > >> >> > Literature is generally bland and lacks depth - though there are great
> > >> >> > moments.  I suspect one of the key issues is raised by Gabby a lot of
> > >> >> > the time - we need to replace current authority and know the irony is
> > >> >> > such attempts just produce the same old business as usual (WB Yeates
> > >> >> > was good on this).
>
> > >> >> > The stuff on thermodynamics above is very similar in method to
> > >> >> > Einstein and what we might now term Wittgensteinian deconstruction -
> > >> >> > trying to find the common elements and mistakes in various competing
> > >> >> > arguments and readdress the apparent conflict.  Molly has some words
> > >> >> > on this too.
>
> > >> >> > On 20 Oct, 20:37, Molly <mollyb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >> >> > > google books had a copy up online, it may still be there.  Used book
> > >> >> > > outlets like Alibris will allow you to put in the book you are searching
> > >> >> > > for and notify you when a copy becomes available for sale by a store that
> > >> >> > > uses their service.  Other than that, you may find some good articles about
> > >> >> > > it with excerpts online.  for Einstein fans, it is a favorite.
>
> > >> >> > > On Saturday, October 20, 2012 10:14:03 AM UTC-4, Allan Heretic wrote:
>
> > >> >> > > > how does a person get a hold of the original text..??
> > >> >> > > > Allan
>
> > >> >> > > > On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 3:10 PM, Molly <moll...@gmail.com <javascript:>>wrote:
>
> > >> >> > > >> The Einstein "The World As I See It," originally began as his ponderance
> > >> >> > > >> of something greater than science, and acknowledgement of spirit in action.
> > >> >> > > >>  The original edition is the best, as his editors put together texts with
> > >> >> > > >> lectures for him under the same name, and those books have an entirely
> > >> >> > > >> different flavor.
>
> > >> >> > > >> From my view, "knowing" is not the end of it, but the beginning.
>
> > >> >> > > >> On Saturday, October 20, 2012 8:09:19 AM UTC-4, gabbydott wrote:
>
> > >> >> > > >>> Honestly, Vam, I don't think that it was Einstein's lack of knowledge
> > >> >> > > >>> that made him pose such a daft (in the sense of limited) question. I read
> > >> >> > > >>> this as a description of the state of occidental science at his time - the
> > >> >> > > >>> conflict between the ontological and the constructivist explanatory models
> > >> >> > > >>> of the nature of knowledge.
>
> > >> >> > > >>> On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 8:41 AM, Vam <atewa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >> >> > > >>>> You spoke of Einstein, about his " only " interest being whether God<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God> had
> > >> >> > > >>>> any choice in manifesting the universe and this observed creation.
>
> > >> >> > > >>>> My own suggestion is that if we do not know enough we will always think
> > >> >> > > >>>> along those lines.
>
> > >> >> > > >>>> To the uninitiate, the desktops of today would seem to be thinking
> > >> >> > > >>>> entities ...
>
> > >> >> > > >>>> *So, do we know enough ?*
>
> > >> >> > > >>>> <https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-EBJSz8MhWQU/UIJGzwpvR3I/AAAAAAAAB0...>
>
> > >> >> > > >>>> On Saturday, October 20, 2012 6:36:45 AM UTC+5:30, rigsy03 wrote:
>
> > >> >> > > >>>>> I took a course on the Snow-Leavis(1959-1962) controversy in the
> > >> >> > > >>>>> mid-'70's. Perhaps we should then conclude scientists do not
> > >> >> > > >>>>> understand humanism? Other works involved included various essays and
> > >> >> > > >>>>> books by Aldous Huxley ("Literature and Science") and Bronowski
> > >> >> > > >>>>> ("Science and Human Values"). Not sure that "incomprehension and
> > >> >> > > >>>>> dislike"(Snow) between the two groups has changed at all when
> > >> >> > > >>>>> considering the gap between rich and poor nations, smart weapons, etc.
> > >> >> > > >>>>> as science and militarism promote the self-interest of various
> > >> >> > > >>>>> nations/
> > >> >> > > >>>>> political theories and practices. Should we quibble that Nazi
> > >> >> > > >>>>> scientists propelled the USA moon landing? At least the moon survived.
>
> > >> >> > > >>>>> On Oct 19, 1:37 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> >> > > >>>>> > The below is rather long, but physics is returning to some of the
> > >> >> > > >>>>> > ideas of James Maxwell.  My dog is named after him.  Years ago, we
> > >> >> > > >>>>> > were told their were two cultures ( CP Snow) - one knew the 2nd law
> > >> >> > > >>>>> of
>
> ...
>
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