Re: Mind's Eye thought experiments

I third that Vam, nicely said
Allan

On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 1:52 AM, Molly <mollyb363@gmail.com> wrote:
> ask and ye shall receive. nicely done!
>
>
> On Saturday, October 13, 2012 8:50:40 AM UTC-4, rigsy03 wrote:
>>
>> Not sure if religion, cults, tribal mischief did not have the same
>> effect Vam. Consider the countless wars, for instance. But I think
>> western man has turn the Age of Machines into a new religion and one
>> could draw many parallels- and has, via artists and authors. Anyway,
>> after spending way too much time finding a new niche for my morning
>> coffee maker before my daughter and two grand-daughters come for the
>> Xmas holidays (!), I have certainly racked up the equivalent of a
>> novena! BTW, a couple of years ago I noticed my feet were slightly
>> stiff in the morning and I worried that my flight to the kitchen for a
>> mug of coffee could be perilous so I bought one of those small coffee
>> makers for the upstairs and now include a muffin- just to rev up the
>> joints before I seize the day. :-) Anyway, this might be a good idea
>> for any who need to warm/rev up. (This is my machine confession.) On
>> the other hand, I have been negotiating with the Divine for a new lawn/
>> snow guy and I am on the brink of success! lol
>>
>> On Oct 11, 6:28 am, Vam <atewari2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Bingo ! * sounding the drums *
>> >
>> > But what gives it the merit also renders science blind to much that is
>> > essential to our humanity, which are abstract and non-material ...
>> > beauty,
>> > ethics, morals, truth, compassion, happiness, love, etc.
>> >
>> > Albert Einstein expressed is eloquently ... as have several others.
>> >
>> > There has been much since science overwhelmed us. But everytime it has
>> > served to delete a part or measure of our humanity, mankind has struck a
>> > blow at its own foot !
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 5:46:04 PM UTC+5:30, rigsy03 wrote:
>> >
>> > > I wasn't clear. I was thinking about new ideas and inventions which
>> > > made older ideas and inventions obsolete or mere stepping stones to a
>> > > greater truth. Science seems more open to changes and advances for the
>> > > most part though Darwin had a struggle but that was because he stepped
>> > > into religious territory which might mean that we are more open to
>> > > change when it does not involve emotions and beliefs versus
>> > > demonstrable facts.
>> >
>> > > On Oct 9, 9:08 am, Vam <atewari2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > > It will still be more clever than the rest !
>> >
>> > > > On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 5:04:27 PM UTC+5:30, rigsy03 wrote:
>> >
>> > > > > Until the next cleverest man/woman comes along! :-)
>> >
>> > > > > On Oct 8, 5:56 pm, Vam <atewari2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > > > > " Machines are only as clever as they have been programmed to
>> > > > > > be. In some cases that may mean smarter than some humans for
>> > > specific
>> > > > > > acts or purposes ... "
>> >
>> > > > > > If a machine is programmed by the cleverest man,
>> >
>> > > > > > it would not be ' only ' as clever as it has been programmed
>> >
>> > > > > > but it would be more clever than every other man on the planet !
>> >
>> > > > > > On Monday, October 8, 2012 5:01:02 PM UTC+5:30, rigsy03 wrote:
>> >
>> > > > > > > And certain ants have also figured out how to enter the honey
>> > > > > > > bee
>> > > as a
>> > > > > > > parasite which has an ominous impact on pollination. Species
>> > > > > > > pick
>> > > up
>> > > > > > > their behaviors from their groups- some are more dedicated-
>> > > patterns
>> > > > > > > can be disrupted.// Anyway, aren't you equating worth with
>> > > > > > > money/
>> > > > > > > salary?//Machines are only as clever as they have been
>> > > > > > > programmed
>> > > to
>> > > > > > > be. In some cases that may mean smarter than some humans for
>> > > specific
>> > > > > > > acts or purposes but still short of general intelligence,
>> > > > > > > insight
>> > > and
>> > > > > > > adaptation.// Old age is not necessarily "lousey" except the
>> > > > > > > final
>> > > > > > > chapter is death and certain goals were not realized or
>> > > > > > > possible.
>> > > Hard
>> > > > > > > work/age does not create arthritis- that is a myth. The 12
>> > > > > > > year
>> > > old
>> > > > > > > across the street has arthritis and started some exercise for
>> > > > > > > violinists.
>> >
>> > > > > > > On Oct 7, 9:51 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > > > > > > The archaeological evidence is that such things as the move
>> > > > > > > > to
>> > > > > farming
>> > > > > > > > from hunter-gathering did not improve the human lot for
>> > > > > > > > those
>> > > who
>> > > > > > > > cleared and dug sod (arthritis etc. from the work). The
>> > > > > > > > obvious
>> > > > > issue
>> > > > > > > > for present society concerns the dubious status of our work
>> > > > > > > > and
>> > > > > life-
>> > > > > > > > style ideologies. Slave-making ants kill the adults in
>> > > > > > > > their
>> > > host
>> > > > > > > > ants and steal the 'eggs' in order to steal the work as they
>> > > become
>> > > > > > > > adult by making them raise their own brood. Even in
>> > > > > > > > enslaved
>> > > ant
>> > > > > > > > consciousness something inspires 'rebellion' and 'duty' to
>> > > > > > > > the
>> > > wider
>> > > > > > > > collective. Humans have a sad history of enslavement and
>> > > > > > > > debt
>> > > > > > > > peonage.
>> > > > > > > > Undergraduates can be heard every year bemoaning salaries on
>> > > offer
>> > > > > for
>> > > > > > > > 'all their hard work' - few of them have done any! The
>> > > > > > > > Chinese
>> > > > > refer
>> > > > > > > > to their graduates who don't get the good jobs as 'Ant
>> > > > > > > > People'.
>> > > > > Some
>> > > > > > > > of my old colleagues inside technological manufacturing used
>> > > > > > > > to
>> > > note
>> > > > > > > > the need for workers was disappearing faster than most knew
>> > > > > > > > as
>> > > work
>> > > > > > > > and skill is embodied in technology (an old marxist theme).
>> > > > > > > > My
>> > > own
>> > > > > > > > feeling is that we have killed off much valuable stuff that
>> > > James
>> > > > > > > > suggests through the ejukation system - falsely imagining
>> > > subjects
>> > > > > > > > designed in our dubious past teach anything other than
>> > > > > > > > control
>> > > > > fraud.
>> > > > > > > > Even medical training involves a lot of unnecessary rot.
>> > > > > > > > Some of us think machines are better at 'thinking' than most
>> > > people
>> > > > > > > > (soon Gabby will be made redundant from her Gad-fly role
>> > > > > > > > once I
>> > > > > clear
>> > > > > > > > up a few teething problems with the bots!), partly because
>> > > > > > > > no
>> > > human
>> > > > > > > > can encompass the data loads. Allan and I share problems
>> > > > > > > > with
>> > > our
>> > > > > > > > 'flash memory' - buzz, ping, PTSD etc. - (it's my time of
>> > > > > > > > year
>> > > to
>> > > > > have
>> > > > > > > > flash-backs to Northern Ireland) - getting old is lousy -
>> > > > > > > > soon
>> > > my
>> > > > > > > > friendly solid state world will move from Enlightenment to
>> > > > > > > > Entanglement as I stroke Schrodinger's cat. We have now
>> > > > > > > > done
>> > > this
>> > > > > > > > experimentally with some tinkering.
>> > > > > > > > Memory is increasingly viewed as about our ability to
>> > > > > > > > predict
>> > > the
>> > > > > > > > future - that is its purpose is for this. We find it in
>> > > non-human
>> > > > > > > > life-forms too. This is related to a general science-view
>> > > > > > > > of
>> > > why a
>> > > > > > > > system would invest in the resources to have memory at all.
>> > > I'll
>> > > > > > > > leave this babble with the question 'where do the Spartacus
>> > > > > > > > ants
>> > > > > > > > raised by the slavers get the memories that inspire
>> > > > > > > > rebellion'?
>> >
>> > > > > > > > On 6 Oct, 19:50, James <ashkas...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > > > > > > > > From another perspective one might like to appreciate the
>> > > role
>> > > > > (or a
>> > > > > > > > > role) of life as within an integral spectrum. If there is
>> > > > > > > > > a
>> > > world
>> > > > > with
>> > > > > > > > > meaning beyond our conceptions it would present a
>> > > > > > > > > challenge to
>> > > > > > > undertake
>> > > > > > > > > exploration and discovery. Regardless of conception or
>> > > > > > > > > outside
>> > > our
>> > > > > > > > > capacity we might be bound by greater rules in nature.
>> > > > > > > > > These
>> > > are
>> > > > > > > > > questions I think that arise when the suspicion of being
>> > > > > > > > > led
>> > > > > becomes
>> > > > > > > too
>> > > > > > > > > great to ignore, fear has a corrupting influence on that
>> > > > > > > > > as
>> > > does
>> > > > > the
>> > > > > > > > > diverse symbols at our disposal provided by language,
>> > > corrupting
>> > > > > as in
>> > > > > > > > > coloring and distorting. But the tools of identity, shared
>> > > > > language
>> > > > > > > and
>> > > > > > > > > meanings can facilitate discovery. Internal motives can
>> > > present a
>> > > > > > > > > struggle for a clear picture, and yet without them what
>> > > impetus
>> > > > > would
>> > > > > > > > > there be? Context is amazingly significant, the when and
>> > > where,
>> > > > > I've
>> > > > > > > > > found. That is in part a few features of what I am
>> > > > > > > > > exploring
>> > > > > > > currently,
>> > > > > > > > > among the jumble. This can be intimate stuff, thanks for
>> > > sharing
>> > > > > what
>> > > > > > > > > you gather. :)
>> >
>> > > > > > > > > On 10/5/2012 4:25 AM, Allan H wrote:
>> >
>> > > > > > > > > > Lately I have been trying to get out of this physical
>> > > concept of
>> > > > > > > things
>> > > > > > > > > > and look at them from a souls to return to soul with the
>> > > body as
>> > > > > > > nothing
>> > > > > > > > > > more than a means of existing in this physical world.
>> > > > > > > > > > this
>> > > > > seems to
>> > > > > > > be
>> > > > > > > > > > changing the perspective on what is conceived as
>> > > > > > > > > > reality.
>> > > > > > > > > > Allan
>> >
>> > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 5:50 AM, James
>> > > > > > > > > > <ashkas...@gmail.com
>> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:ashkas...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> >
>> > > > > > > > > > We may be on the same page Gabby, my imagined future
>> > > > > > > possibilities
>> > > > > > > > > > are still clouded by unknowns (to me). That I
>> > > > > > > > > > consider a
>> > > > > > > consequence
>> > > > > > > > > > of mental bondage to current circumstances, and left
>> > > > > unchecked
>> > > > > > > can
>> > > > > > > > > > be demoralizing to creative intelligence. As far as
>> > > > > > > > > > I
>> > > can
>> > > > > tell
>> > > > > > > we
>> > > > > > > > > > are meant to invent solutions to challenges, and
>> > > > > > > > > > hold on
>> > > as
>> > > > > long
>> > > > > > > as
>> > > > > > > > > > possible until the opportunity arises. My opinion is
>> > > that we
>> > > > > can
>> > > > > > > do
>> > > > > > > > > > little to force change but as facilitators we can
>> > > > > > > > > > pursue
>> > > > > > > strategic
>> > > > > > > > > > challenges that will open those opportunities.
>> >
>> > > > > > > > > > If I said that in 10 years the technology should be
>> > > > > accessible
>> > > > > > > to
>> > > > > > > > > > refine garbage, wood or any other fuel into
>> > > > > > > > > > electricity
>> > > at
>> > > > > 80+
>> > > > > > > > > > conversion efficiency from common household
>> > > > > > > > > > materials in
>> > > > > your
>> > > > > > > > > > average (modern) garage there is no shortage of
>> > > engineers
>> > > > > that
>> > > > > > > would
>> > > > > > > > > > call me a quack. If I said that you could do it
>> > > > > > > > > > today
>> > > with
>> > > > > > > moderate
>> > > > > > > > > > access to materials refining equipment, with a net
>> > > generated
>> > > > > > > income
>> > > > > > > > > > over the winter months, and it could be boosted by
>> > > running a
>> > > > > > > > > > greenhouse and indoor fishery I would be surely
>> > > > > > > > > > nuts.
>> > > SOFC,
>> > > > > > > steam
>> > > > > > > > > > reforming, plasma reduction, pyrolytic reduction are
>> > > > > > > > > > a
>> > > few
>> > > > > terms
>> > > > > > > for
>> > > > > > > > > > that type of nut.
>> >
>> > > > > > > > > > I think we are missing the spirit of engineering in
>> > > > > > > > > > our
>> > > > > social
>> > > > > > > and
>> > > > > > > > > > political dialogue. It could just be me.. we seem to
>> > > > > > > > > > be
>> > > able
>> > > > > to
>> > > > > > > > > > redefine just about any kind of waste into an asset,
>> > > > > > > > > > but
>> > > we
>> > > > > > > insist
>> >
>> > ...
>> >
>> > read more »- Hide quoted text -
>> >
>> > - Show quoted text -
>
> --
>
>
>



--
(
)
|_D Allan

Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.


I am a Natural Airgunner -

Full of Hot Air & Ready To Expel It Quickly.

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