Re: Mind's Eye thought experiments

OK, I deleted all the words not to be trusted. Here is the rest:
My dyslexic friend Lee wishes we were all able to read on the same
page, flattening and thereby banning the dancing shadows and ghosts to
clearly contrasted black letters on a white ground. On the other side,
as Rigs points out, speech whitens itself on this ground. Neil's
suggestion for a transparent hypertext in a contextualised world won't
make any of the sides fade into meaninglessness then.


On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 5:50 AM, James <ashkashal@gmail.com> wrote:
> We may be on the same page Gabby, my imagined future possibilities are still
> clouded by unknowns (to me). That I consider a consequence of mental bondage
> to current circumstances, and left unchecked can be demoralizing to creative
> intelligence. As far as I can tell we are meant to invent solutions to
> challenges, and hold on as long as possible until the opportunity arises. My
> opinion is that we can do little to force change but as facilitators we can
> pursue strategic challenges that will open those opportunities.
>
> If I said that in 10 years the technology should be accessible to refine
> garbage, wood or any other fuel into electricity at 80+ conversion
> efficiency from common household materials in your average (modern) garage
> there is no shortage of engineers that would call me a quack. If I said that
> you could do it today with moderate access to materials refining equipment,
> with a net generated income over the winter months, and it could be boosted
> by running a greenhouse and indoor fishery I would be surely nuts. SOFC,
> steam reforming, plasma reduction, pyrolytic reduction are a few terms for
> that type of nut.
>
> I think we are missing the spirit of engineering in our social and political
> dialogue. It could just be me.. we seem to be able to redefine just about
> any kind of waste into an asset, but we insist that primitive human traits
> are superior and sacrosanct.
>
> Navigating awkward transitions, that is what I think we are doing (not
> necessarily excellently, but making progress). Still passin' the buck here,
> your turn. Sorry for no answer Archy, too bad telepathy isn't an option
> because the picture is clear but I just don't trust the words yet.
>
>
> On 10/4/2012 5:14 AM, gabbydott wrote:
>>
>> That's right. Us end consumers of your brilliant ideas need time to
>> consume your complex theories in simple practice for you to see where
>> we fail to get your idea for you to better educate and motivate us. :p
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 4:25 AM, James<ashkashal@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I was hoping we could evolve sociologically in step with technology, that
>>> implies an intelligent management infrastructure that educates and
>>> motivates
>>> free agents to make contributions to the works of humanity. Suitably
>>> educated in the workings of organisms (especially how they relate and
>>> compare to man), the arts, sciences, elimination of destitution, poverty,
>>> mental illnesses, the list goes on.. It requires that we manage things
>>> intelligently, learn from mistakes and move forward. If this progress
>>> happened in a 100 years I think we would likely reduce our population to
>>> half within the next hundred, there is nothing logical about reproducing
>>> ad
>>> infinitum and by then the social costs should be obvious enough, added to
>>> the lack of need as we extend the human lifespan. I think we have a large
>>> potential in voluntary acts.
>>>
>>> Who is pie in the sky now? :p
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/3/2012 5:57 PM, archytas wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If workers aren't needed for work, what will happen to them? The
>>>> animal and plant world answer is generally a 'return to nutrients'.
>>>>
>>>> On 3 Oct, 09:57, Shekila Tieschmaker<shekilatieschma...@yahoo.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> how do you get out this group thing ?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>> From: James<ashkas...@gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: minds-eye@googlegroups.com
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 2, 2012 10:26 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Mind's Eye thought experiments
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Well it is far worse (or better depending on who is looking at it),
>>>>>> many
>>>>>> of the older trades and crafts-people I've met had an appreciation for
>>>>>> seeing their work as an artform. That would be my robot heaven,
>>>>>> working
>>>>>> toward a world where we can all pursue meaning and purposeful work
>>>>>> without
>>>>>> the burden of resource scarcity. What would it matter that someone
>>>>>> wants to
>>>>>> be a plumber or architect in a day when those positions are obsolete,
>>>>>> if
>>>>>> that is pursuing meaning, it would matter little more than what
>>>>>> restaurant
>>>>>> someone likes to the next guy. In a world that valued human
>>>>>> contribution it
>>>>>> might be a plus, there is a name associated with the foundation of my
>>>>>> home,
>>>>>> or certain furniture or I tweaked my engine to respond exactly the way
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> like in a curve, finding a way to shield a planet from gamma
>>>>>> radiation,
>>>>>> optimizing resource allocations in complex evolving environments from
>>>>>> nanotech on up to transport vessels for interplanetary mining and
>>>>>> settlement, etc..
>>>>>> Back to the present time and scale there is the matter of plotting a
>>>>>> course of innovation by meeting challenges.
>>>>>> Laziness might be a challenge, and frailty, I haven't met many people
>>>>>> who have had to wash clothes in a bathtub complain about the
>>>>>> advancement of
>>>>>> the washing machine, or get whimsical about enduring ailments we've
>>>>>> found
>>>>>> remedies or therapies for. We seem to be in a transitional stage, not
>>>>>> quite
>>>>>> coming to grips with the world we could create. Psychology is
>>>>>> important to
>>>>>> survival, nonproductive time as some call it, I eye some of them as
>>>>>> suspect
>>>>>> sociopaths. Being motivated can be very rewarding, it is too bad that
>>>>>> out
>>>>>> word for meaningfully motivated is "naive". I'm taking the long way
>>>>>> 'round
>>>>>> with this.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 9/19/2012 5:56 PM, archytas wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thought experiments are devices of the imagination used to
>>>>>>> investigate
>>>>>>> the nature of things. Thought experimenting often takes place when
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> method of variation is employed in entertaining imaginative
>>>>>>> suppositions. They are used for diverse reasons in a variety of
>>>>>>> areas,
>>>>>>> including economics, history, mathematics, philosophy, and physics.
>>>>>>> Most often thought experiments are communicated in narrative form,
>>>>>>> sometimes through media like a diagram. Thought experiments should be
>>>>>>> distinguished from thinking about experiments, from merely imagining
>>>>>>> any experiments to be conducted outside the imagination, and from
>>>>>>> psychological experiments with thoughts. They should also be
>>>>>>> distinguished from counterfactual reasoning in general, as they seem
>>>>>>> to require an experimental element.
>>>>>>> http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/thought-experiment/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> One I like is the notion of robot heaven. It's easy enough to
>>>>>>> imagine
>>>>>>> a time when machines grow our food, build our shelter and do our
>>>>>>> work. The interesting stuff comes in thinking what this would mean
>>>>>>> for wealth distribution and the nature of society. What work would
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> left to do? One can also wonder what place any of our work ethics
>>>>>>> would have in such a society. There may be some deconstructive
>>>>>>> effect
>>>>>>> on just what current work ideologies are in place for.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> One of the great improvements technology brought to my life is more
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> less never having to go into a bank. The only real innovations in
>>>>>>> banking are the ATM and electronic banking. This kind of technology
>>>>>>> and similar in agriculture and industry fundamentally reduce the
>>>>>>> amount of human effort to grow and make what we need. We are in
>>>>>>> partial state of robot heaven.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Our ideologies are not up to speed. Real unemployment is massive and
>>>>>>> education does little to provide job skills. We are sold life-styles
>>>>>>> and products by insane advertising. Job creation seems to be in
>>>>>>> perverse areas like financial services or bringing back attended gas-
>>>>>>> pumps. With more efficient production we should be able to afford a
>>>>>>> bigger social sector and I can't for the life of me understand why we
>>>>>>> allow competition through crap wages and conditions.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> A great deal of what we pay for could be available more or less free.
>>>>>>> Educational content and utility banking are examples - these are
>>>>>>> areas
>>>>>>> that could be ratinalised like agriculture and manufacturing.
>>>>>>> Millions of jobs would go. We should be asking why jobs are so
>>>>>>> central to out thinking on wealth distribution and how we might
>>>>>>> encourage work without the rat race.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
> --
>
>
>

--