I have no doubts about severely debilitating and cosmic effects of religions that junk reason and humanity, and demand their adherents too to remain steadfast with the irrational. An institutional frame of clerics and clergy for global control is no more than a prison, covered with very beguiling but false promise of freedom.
On Saturday, October 13, 2012 6:20:40 PM UTC+5:30, rigsy03 wrote:
-- On Saturday, October 13, 2012 6:20:40 PM UTC+5:30, rigsy03 wrote:
Not sure if religion, cults, tribal mischief did not have the same
effect Vam. Consider the countless wars, for instance. But I think
western man has turn the Age of Machines into a new religion and one
could draw many parallels- and has, via artists and authors. Anyway,
after spending way too much time finding a new niche for my morning
coffee maker before my daughter and two grand-daughters come for the
Xmas holidays (!), I have certainly racked up the equivalent of a
novena! BTW, a couple of years ago I noticed my feet were slightly
stiff in the morning and I worried that my flight to the kitchen for a
mug of coffee could be perilous so I bought one of those small coffee
makers for the upstairs and now include a muffin- just to rev up the
joints before I seize the day. :-) Anyway, this might be a good idea
for any who need to warm/rev up. (This is my machine confession.) On
the other hand, I have been negotiating with the Divine for a new lawn/
snow guy and I am on the brink of success! lol
On Oct 11, 6:28 am, Vam <atewari2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Bingo ! * sounding the drums *
>
> But what gives it the merit also renders science blind to much that is
> essential to our humanity, which are abstract and non-material ... beauty,
> ethics, morals, truth, compassion, happiness, love, etc.
>
> Albert Einstein expressed is eloquently ... as have several others.
>
> There has been much since science overwhelmed us. But everytime it has
> served to delete a part or measure of our humanity, mankind has struck a
> blow at its own foot !
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 5:46:04 PM UTC+5:30, rigsy03 wrote:
>
> > I wasn't clear. I was thinking about new ideas and inventions which
> > made older ideas and inventions obsolete or mere stepping stones to a
> > greater truth. Science seems more open to changes and advances for the
> > most part though Darwin had a struggle but that was because he stepped
> > into religious territory which might mean that we are more open to
> > change when it does not involve emotions and beliefs versus
> > demonstrable facts.
>
> > On Oct 9, 9:08 am, Vam <atewari2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > It will still be more clever than the rest !
>
> > > On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 5:04:27 PM UTC+5:30, rigsy03 wrote:
>
> > > > Until the next cleverest man/woman comes along! :-)
>
> > > > On Oct 8, 5:56 pm, Vam <atewari2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > " Machines are only as clever as they have been programmed to
> > > > > be. In some cases that may mean smarter than some humans for
> > specific
> > > > > acts or purposes ... "
>
> > > > > If a machine is programmed by the cleverest man,
>
> > > > > it would not be ' only ' as clever as it has been programmed
>
> > > > > but it would be more clever than every other man on the planet !
>
> > > > > On Monday, October 8, 2012 5:01:02 PM UTC+5:30, rigsy03 wrote:
>
> > > > > > And certain ants have also figured out how to enter the honey bee
> > as a
> > > > > > parasite which has an ominous impact on pollination. Species pick
> > up
> > > > > > their behaviors from their groups- some are more dedicated-
> > patterns
> > > > > > can be disrupted.// Anyway, aren't you equating worth with money/
> > > > > > salary?//Machines are only as clever as they have been programmed
> > to
> > > > > > be. In some cases that may mean smarter than some humans for
> > specific
> > > > > > acts or purposes but still short of general intelligence, insight
> > and
> > > > > > adaptation.// Old age is not necessarily "lousey" except the final
> > > > > > chapter is death and certain goals were not realized or possible.
> > Hard
> > > > > > work/age does not create arthritis- that is a myth. The 12 year
> > old
> > > > > > across the street has arthritis and started some exercise for
> > > > > > violinists.
>
> > > > > > On Oct 7, 9:51 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > The archaeological evidence is that such things as the move to
> > > > farming
> > > > > > > from hunter-gathering did not improve the human lot for those
> > who
> > > > > > > cleared and dug sod (arthritis etc. from the work). The obvious
> > > > issue
> > > > > > > for present society concerns the dubious status of our work and
> > > > life-
> > > > > > > style ideologies. Slave-making ants kill the adults in their
> > host
> > > > > > > ants and steal the 'eggs' in order to steal the work as they
> > become
> > > > > > > adult by making them raise their own brood. Even in enslaved
> > ant
> > > > > > > consciousness something inspires 'rebellion' and 'duty' to the
> > wider
> > > > > > > collective. Humans have a sad history of enslavement and debt
> > > > > > > peonage.
> > > > > > > Undergraduates can be heard every year bemoaning salaries on
> > offer
> > > > for
> > > > > > > 'all their hard work' - few of them have done any! The Chinese
> > > > refer
> > > > > > > to their graduates who don't get the good jobs as 'Ant People'.
> > > > Some
> > > > > > > of my old colleagues inside technological manufacturing used to
> > note
> > > > > > > the need for workers was disappearing faster than most knew as
> > work
> > > > > > > and skill is embodied in technology (an old marxist theme). My
> > own
> > > > > > > feeling is that we have killed off much valuable stuff that
> > James
> > > > > > > suggests through the ejukation system - falsely imagining
> > subjects
> > > > > > > designed in our dubious past teach anything other than control
> > > > fraud.
> > > > > > > Even medical training involves a lot of unnecessary rot.
> > > > > > > Some of us think machines are better at 'thinking' than most
> > people
> > > > > > > (soon Gabby will be made redundant from her Gad-fly role once I
> > > > clear
> > > > > > > up a few teething problems with the bots!), partly because no
> > human
> > > > > > > can encompass the data loads. Allan and I share problems with
> > our
> > > > > > > 'flash memory' - buzz, ping, PTSD etc. - (it's my time of year
> > to
> > > > have
> > > > > > > flash-backs to Northern Ireland) - getting old is lousy - soon
> > my
> > > > > > > friendly solid state world will move from Enlightenment to
> > > > > > > Entanglement as I stroke Schrodinger's cat. We have now done
> > this
> > > > > > > experimentally with some tinkering.
> > > > > > > Memory is increasingly viewed as about our ability to predict
> > the
> > > > > > > future - that is its purpose is for this. We find it in
> > non-human
> > > > > > > life-forms too. This is related to a general science-view of
> > why a
> > > > > > > system would invest in the resources to have memory at all.
> > I'll
> > > > > > > leave this babble with the question 'where do the Spartacus ants
> > > > > > > raised by the slavers get the memories that inspire rebellion'?
>
> > > > > > > On 6 Oct, 19:50, James <ashkas...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > From another perspective one might like to appreciate the
> > role
> > > > (or a
> > > > > > > > role) of life as within an integral spectrum. If there is a
> > world
> > > > with
> > > > > > > > meaning beyond our conceptions it would present a challenge to
> > > > > > undertake
> > > > > > > > exploration and discovery. Regardless of conception or outside
> > our
> > > > > > > > capacity we might be bound by greater rules in nature. These
> > are
> > > > > > > > questions I think that arise when the suspicion of being led
> > > > becomes
> > > > > > too
> > > > > > > > great to ignore, fear has a corrupting influence on that as
> > does
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > diverse symbols at our disposal provided by language,
> > corrupting
> > > > as in
> > > > > > > > coloring and distorting. But the tools of identity, shared
> > > > language
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > meanings can facilitate discovery. Internal motives can
> > present a
> > > > > > > > struggle for a clear picture, and yet without them what
> > impetus
> > > > would
> > > > > > > > there be? Context is amazingly significant, the when and
> > where,
> > > > I've
> > > > > > > > found. That is in part a few features of what I am exploring
> > > > > > currently,
> > > > > > > > among the jumble. This can be intimate stuff, thanks for
> > sharing
> > > > what
> > > > > > > > you gather. :)
>
> > > > > > > > On 10/5/2012 4:25 AM, Allan H wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > Lately I have been trying to get out of this physical
> > concept of
> > > > > > things
> > > > > > > > > and look at them from a souls to return to soul with the
> > body as
> > > > > > nothing
> > > > > > > > > more than a means of existing in this physical world. this
> > > > seems to
> > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > > changing the perspective on what is conceived as reality.
> > > > > > > > > Allan
>
> > > > > > > > > On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 5:50 AM, James <ashkas...@gmail.com
> > > > > > > > > <mailto:ashkas...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > We may be on the same page Gabby, my imagined future
> > > > > > possibilities
> > > > > > > > > are still clouded by unknowns (to me). That I consider a
> > > > > > consequence
> > > > > > > > > of mental bondage to current circumstances, and left
> > > > unchecked
> > > > > > can
> > > > > > > > > be demoralizing to creative intelligence. As far as I
> > can
> > > > tell
> > > > > > we
> > > > > > > > > are meant to invent solutions to challenges, and hold on
> > as
> > > > long
> > > > > > as
> > > > > > > > > possible until the opportunity arises. My opinion is
> > that we
> > > > can
> > > > > > do
> > > > > > > > > little to force change but as facilitators we can pursue
> > > > > > strategic
> > > > > > > > > challenges that will open those opportunities.
>
> > > > > > > > > If I said that in 10 years the technology should be
> > > > accessible
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > refine garbage, wood or any other fuel into electricity
> > at
> > > > 80+
> > > > > > > > > conversion efficiency from common household materials in
> > > > your
> > > > > > > > > average (modern) garage there is no shortage of
> > engineers
> > > > that
> > > > > > would
> > > > > > > > > call me a quack. If I said that you could do it today
> > with
> > > > > > moderate
> > > > > > > > > access to materials refining equipment, with a net
> > generated
> > > > > > income
> > > > > > > > > over the winter months, and it could be boosted by
> > running a
> > > > > > > > > greenhouse and indoor fishery I would be surely nuts.
> > SOFC,
> > > > > > steam
> > > > > > > > > reforming, plasma reduction, pyrolytic reduction are a
> > few
> > > > terms
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > that type of nut.
>
> > > > > > > > > I think we are missing the spirit of engineering in our
> > > > social
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > political dialogue. It could just be me.. we seem to be
> > able
> > > > to
> > > > > > > > > redefine just about any kind of waste into an asset, but
> > we
> > > > > > insist
>
> ...
>
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