Re: Mind's Eye thought experiments

Welcome Konara
Allan

On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 4:11 AM, Konara Abeyrathne <konaraa@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear all-Machines are created.invented on the basis of the
> knowledge,skills and creativity of one's mind.the power and the
> eficacyof the mind, if it sharpens is unable to predict.
>
> On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 5:26 AM, gabbydott <gabbydott@gmail.com> wrote:
>> OK, I deleted all the words not to be trusted. Here is the rest:
>> My dyslexic friend Lee wishes we were all able to read on the same
>> page, flattening and thereby banning the dancing shadows and ghosts to
>> clearly contrasted black letters on a white ground. On the other side,
>> as Rigs points out, speech whitens itself on this ground. Neil's
>> suggestion for a transparent hypertext in a contextualised world won't
>> make any of the sides fade into meaninglessness then.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 5:50 AM, James <ashkashal@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> We may be on the same page Gabby, my imagined future possibilities are still
>>> clouded by unknowns (to me). That I consider a consequence of mental bondage
>>> to current circumstances, and left unchecked can be demoralizing to creative
>>> intelligence. As far as I can tell we are meant to invent solutions to
>>> challenges, and hold on as long as possible until the opportunity arises. My
>>> opinion is that we can do little to force change but as facilitators we can
>>> pursue strategic challenges that will open those opportunities.
>>>
>>> If I said that in 10 years the technology should be accessible to refine
>>> garbage, wood or any other fuel into electricity at 80+ conversion
>>> efficiency from common household materials in your average (modern) garage
>>> there is no shortage of engineers that would call me a quack. If I said that
>>> you could do it today with moderate access to materials refining equipment,
>>> with a net generated income over the winter months, and it could be boosted
>>> by running a greenhouse and indoor fishery I would be surely nuts. SOFC,
>>> steam reforming, plasma reduction, pyrolytic reduction are a few terms for
>>> that type of nut.
>>>
>>> I think we are missing the spirit of engineering in our social and political
>>> dialogue. It could just be me.. we seem to be able to redefine just about
>>> any kind of waste into an asset, but we insist that primitive human traits
>>> are superior and sacrosanct.
>>>
>>> Navigating awkward transitions, that is what I think we are doing (not
>>> necessarily excellently, but making progress). Still passin' the buck here,
>>> your turn. Sorry for no answer Archy, too bad telepathy isn't an option
>>> because the picture is clear but I just don't trust the words yet.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/4/2012 5:14 AM, gabbydott wrote:
>>>>
>>>> That's right. Us end consumers of your brilliant ideas need time to
>>>> consume your complex theories in simple practice for you to see where
>>>> we fail to get your idea for you to better educate and motivate us. :p
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 4:25 AM, James<ashkashal@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I was hoping we could evolve sociologically in step with technology, that
>>>>> implies an intelligent management infrastructure that educates and
>>>>> motivates
>>>>> free agents to make contributions to the works of humanity. Suitably
>>>>> educated in the workings of organisms (especially how they relate and
>>>>> compare to man), the arts, sciences, elimination of destitution, poverty,
>>>>> mental illnesses, the list goes on.. It requires that we manage things
>>>>> intelligently, learn from mistakes and move forward. If this progress
>>>>> happened in a 100 years I think we would likely reduce our population to
>>>>> half within the next hundred, there is nothing logical about reproducing
>>>>> ad
>>>>> infinitum and by then the social costs should be obvious enough, added to
>>>>> the lack of need as we extend the human lifespan. I think we have a large
>>>>> potential in voluntary acts.
>>>>>
>>>>> Who is pie in the sky now? :p
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 10/3/2012 5:57 PM, archytas wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If workers aren't needed for work, what will happen to them? The
>>>>>> animal and plant world answer is generally a 'return to nutrients'.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3 Oct, 09:57, Shekila Tieschmaker<shekilatieschma...@yahoo.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> how do you get out this group thing ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>>>> From: James<ashkas...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> To: minds-eye@googlegroups.com
>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 2, 2012 10:26 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Mind's Eye thought experiments
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well it is far worse (or better depending on who is looking at it),
>>>>>>>> many
>>>>>>>> of the older trades and crafts-people I've met had an appreciation for
>>>>>>>> seeing their work as an artform. That would be my robot heaven,
>>>>>>>> working
>>>>>>>> toward a world where we can all pursue meaning and purposeful work
>>>>>>>> without
>>>>>>>> the burden of resource scarcity. What would it matter that someone
>>>>>>>> wants to
>>>>>>>> be a plumber or architect in a day when those positions are obsolete,
>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>> that is pursuing meaning, it would matter little more than what
>>>>>>>> restaurant
>>>>>>>> someone likes to the next guy. In a world that valued human
>>>>>>>> contribution it
>>>>>>>> might be a plus, there is a name associated with the foundation of my
>>>>>>>> home,
>>>>>>>> or certain furniture or I tweaked my engine to respond exactly the way
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> like in a curve, finding a way to shield a planet from gamma
>>>>>>>> radiation,
>>>>>>>> optimizing resource allocations in complex evolving environments from
>>>>>>>> nanotech on up to transport vessels for interplanetary mining and
>>>>>>>> settlement, etc..
>>>>>>>> Back to the present time and scale there is the matter of plotting a
>>>>>>>> course of innovation by meeting challenges.
>>>>>>>> Laziness might be a challenge, and frailty, I haven't met many people
>>>>>>>> who have had to wash clothes in a bathtub complain about the
>>>>>>>> advancement of
>>>>>>>> the washing machine, or get whimsical about enduring ailments we've
>>>>>>>> found
>>>>>>>> remedies or therapies for. We seem to be in a transitional stage, not
>>>>>>>> quite
>>>>>>>> coming to grips with the world we could create. Psychology is
>>>>>>>> important to
>>>>>>>> survival, nonproductive time as some call it, I eye some of them as
>>>>>>>> suspect
>>>>>>>> sociopaths. Being motivated can be very rewarding, it is too bad that
>>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>> word for meaningfully motivated is "naive". I'm taking the long way
>>>>>>>> 'round
>>>>>>>> with this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 9/19/2012 5:56 PM, archytas wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thought experiments are devices of the imagination used to
>>>>>>>>> investigate
>>>>>>>>> the nature of things. Thought experimenting often takes place when
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> method of variation is employed in entertaining imaginative
>>>>>>>>> suppositions. They are used for diverse reasons in a variety of
>>>>>>>>> areas,
>>>>>>>>> including economics, history, mathematics, philosophy, and physics.
>>>>>>>>> Most often thought experiments are communicated in narrative form,
>>>>>>>>> sometimes through media like a diagram. Thought experiments should be
>>>>>>>>> distinguished from thinking about experiments, from merely imagining
>>>>>>>>> any experiments to be conducted outside the imagination, and from
>>>>>>>>> psychological experiments with thoughts. They should also be
>>>>>>>>> distinguished from counterfactual reasoning in general, as they seem
>>>>>>>>> to require an experimental element.
>>>>>>>>> http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/thought-experiment/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> One I like is the notion of robot heaven. It's easy enough to
>>>>>>>>> imagine
>>>>>>>>> a time when machines grow our food, build our shelter and do our
>>>>>>>>> work. The interesting stuff comes in thinking what this would mean
>>>>>>>>> for wealth distribution and the nature of society. What work would
>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>> left to do? One can also wonder what place any of our work ethics
>>>>>>>>> would have in such a society. There may be some deconstructive
>>>>>>>>> effect
>>>>>>>>> on just what current work ideologies are in place for.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> One of the great improvements technology brought to my life is more
>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>> less never having to go into a bank. The only real innovations in
>>>>>>>>> banking are the ATM and electronic banking. This kind of technology
>>>>>>>>> and similar in agriculture and industry fundamentally reduce the
>>>>>>>>> amount of human effort to grow and make what we need. We are in
>>>>>>>>> partial state of robot heaven.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Our ideologies are not up to speed. Real unemployment is massive and
>>>>>>>>> education does little to provide job skills. We are sold life-styles
>>>>>>>>> and products by insane advertising. Job creation seems to be in
>>>>>>>>> perverse areas like financial services or bringing back attended gas-
>>>>>>>>> pumps. With more efficient production we should be able to afford a
>>>>>>>>> bigger social sector and I can't for the life of me understand why we
>>>>>>>>> allow competition through crap wages and conditions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A great deal of what we pay for could be available more or less free.
>>>>>>>>> Educational content and utility banking are examples - these are
>>>>>>>>> areas
>>>>>>>>> that could be ratinalised like agriculture and manufacturing.
>>>>>>>>> Millions of jobs would go. We should be asking why jobs are so
>>>>>>>>> central to out thinking on wealth distribution and how we might
>>>>>>>>> encourage work without the rat race.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
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>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
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>
> --
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>



--
(
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|_D Allan

Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.


I am a Natural Airgunner -

Full of Hot Air & Ready To Expel It Quickly.

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