Re: Mind's Eye thought experiments

I must be in one of my dumb days
this is not make any if little sense
Allan

On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 8:09 PM, Vam <atewari2007@gmail.com> wrote:
> To speak of "humans" is to bring into our consideration unimaginable
> diversity with various analog measures of essentially three natures in their
> capacity and drive :
>
> - Inertia...dullness, sloth, stillness, unwillingness, regressive, weighted,
> heavy [ ego- id ]
>
> - Active... drive, curiosity, vitality, senses, daring, strength, power
> [ ego- mind ]
>
> - Calm... balance, freedom, focus, awareness, knowledge
> [ ego - intellect ]
>
> The way these natures determine us --
>
> I Overall, by the proportion of their meaures in our capacity
>
> II In Time, by their predominance over others at any point in time.
>
>
> For instance, a person with 70 : 15 :10 combo would be lazy overall.
>
> But at a time when his vitality is on the flare, he will show unexpectedted
> zeal.
>
> Or, when calm nature predominates, he will be surprisingly awake and
> receptive.
>
>
> To answer your question, ALL things could be useful and can become a means
> for our self-improvement as aid to memory, focus to gather ourself around,
> activity to engage in so as to free ourself from our own ill-thoughts and
> predispositions, process to build up our concentration and conserve our
> vitality, etc.
>
> In particular, most people have a need of symbols and myths... a form to
> see, remeber or imagine in order to conceive of that which is intangible.
> Geometry uses a lot of it for space. The idols in temples or god-persons of
> yore are a means of reminding us of ourselves, beyond the piggish, mulish or
> cocky form we take on in our lives.
>
> Rituals and ceremonies engage us, our vitality and mind, to a particular
> emotion or thought in our spirit. Armed forces regularly make use of this
> form of engagement.
>
> Ethics and morals are extremely intangible and tenuous matters for most
> human beings. In addition, they are difficult to carry and institute in
> ourselves. It is so much easier to be wilful, to give ourselves away, and to
> indulge.
>
> Religion, as i was introduced to, was more in the way of propping us up by
> morals and ethics, beauty and happiness, compassion and freedom.
>
> Once the the overall nature is transformed into being calm, especially when
> needed, to holding on to ethics and morals in our person ... religion is not
> of much use, nor are symbols and rituals.
>
> Going by what I see however, in news and life in general, that time is not
> yet come for most people on this planet.
>
>
> On Thursday, October 18, 2012 6:56:47 AM UTC+5:30, rigsy03 wrote:
>>
>> Do humans need rituals and ceremonies in your opinion? I think I
>> remember Joseph Campbell saying they were necessary. Are they or have
>> we transformed them in the modern era? Were they instituted as a way
>> of belonging? Have we lost or gained? Will civil organizations have
>> the same power as religious/ethical? Is a civil prison hell, purgatory
>> or limbo? Do you know the USA has the highest number of prisons/
>> prisoners in the world? (At least a few years ago.)
>>
>> On Oct 16, 12:45 am, Vam <atewari2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Agree entirely, Rigs !
>> >
>> > The " your-God - my-God " argument ... and "God power" ... ** sigh ***
>> >
>> > I believe, Jethro Tull says much of what I feel in : *"My God"*
>> >
>> > People -- what have you done --
>> > locked Him in His golden cage.
>> > Made Him bend to your religion --
>> > Him resurrected from the grave.
>> >
>> > He is the god of nothing --
>> > if that's all that you can see.
>> >
>> > You are the god of everything --
>> > He's inside you and me.
>> >
>> > So lean upon Him gently
>> > and don't call on Him to save you
>> > from your social graces
>> > and the sins you used to waive.
>> > The bloody Church of England --
>> > in chains of history --
>> > requests your earthly presence at
>> > the vicarage for tea.
>> >
>> > And the graven image you-know-who --
>> > with His plastic crucifix --
>> > he's got him fixed --
>> > confuses me as to who and where and why --
>> > as to how he gets his kicks.
>> >
>> > Confessing to the endless sin --
>> > the endless whining sounds.
>> > You'll be praying till next Thursday to
>> > all the gods that you can count.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tuesday, October 16, 2012 8:01:47 AM UTC+5:30, rigsy03 wrote:
>> >
>> > > "God powers" might also be a way of saying possession of grace in a
>> > > religious sense. Not sure what race has to do with this as we humans
>> > > arrive with the same form- what separates us is equity in several
>> > > ways. Political structure is a matter of timing and luck plus picking
>> > > the right side/group for the most part if you insist humans are
>> > > political by nature. I think there are agreed principals of ethical
>> > > behavior- universals- murked up with particulars. There is also a
>> > > recognition of evil as a force to contend with- internal and external.
>> >
>> > > On Oct 15, 6:40 pm, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > > I'll pick up the stone
>> > > >
>> > > > (http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/07/reasons-matter-when-i...)
>> >
>> > > > and argue that I cannot know if your Gods are false or not. Not
>> > > > because I am not a religious man, or a black man, or a political
>> > > > man,
>> > > > but because I am an individual and thereby only possess restrained
>> > > > demonstrable God powers myself.
>> >
>> > > > On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 10:36 AM, Vam <atewari2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > > > All Gods that religious men speak about, brandish shall we say,
>> > > > > are
>> > > false.
>> >
>> > > > > The one distributing those "commandments" included.
>> >
>> > > > > Which is not what I would say about individuals who take
>> > > > > initiatives
>> > > to
>> > > > > restrict people from moral turpitude and unethical conduct.
>> >
>> > > > > On Monday, October 15, 2012 11:01:46 AM UTC+5:30, Allan Heretic
>> > > > > wrote:
>> >
>> > > > >> doesn't one of the commandments say something about false gods?
>> > > > >> Allan
>> >
>> > > > >> On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 6:15 AM, rigsy03 <rig...@yahoo.com>
>> > > > >> wrote:
>> > > > >> > Thank you, Vam- I hope it is another precious visit.
>> >
>> > > > >> > Politics has become a "religion", as well. Just substitue a few
>> > > words
>> > > > >> > in your paragraph. :-)
>> >
>> > > > >> > On Oct 13, 5:38 pm, Vam <atewari2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > > >> >> Rigs, I can't help but think of the presence of a daughter and
>> > > > >> >> her
>> > > > >> >> family
>> > > > >> >> as " Happy Times " with grand-daughters ... noise, play,
>> > > > >> >> shout,
>> > > > >> >> request,
>> > > > >> >> demand and irritate, reminisce and gossip ,,, ! Hope it
>> > > > >> >> acrually
>> > > turns
>> > > > >> >> to
>> > > > >> >> be a happy interlude .
>> >
>> > > > >> >> I have no doubts about severely debilitating and cosmic
>> > > > >> >> effects of
>> > > > >> >> religions that junk reason and humanity, and demand their
>> > > adherents too
>> > > > >> >> to
>> > > > >> >> remain steadfast with the irrational. An institutional frame
>> > > > >> >> of
>> > > clerics
>> > > > >> >> and
>> > > > >> >> clergy for global control is no more than a prison, covered
>> > > > >> >> with
>> > > very
>> > > > >> >> beguiling but false promise of freedom.
>> >
>> > > > >> >> On Saturday, October 13, 2012 6:20:40 PM UTC+5:30, rigsy03
>> > > > >> >> wrote:
>> >
>> > > > >> >> > Not sure if religion, cults, tribal mischief did not have
>> > > > >> >> > the
>> > > same
>> > > > >> >> > effect Vam. Consider the countless wars, for instance. But I
>> > > think
>> > > > >> >> > western man has turn the Age of Machines into a new religion
>> > > > >> >> > and
>> > > one
>> > > > >> >> > could draw many parallels- and has, via artists and authors.
>> > > Anyway,
>> > > > >> >> > after spending way too much time finding a new niche for my
>> > > morning
>> > > > >> >> > coffee maker before my daughter and two grand-daughters come
>> > > > >> >> > for
>> > > the
>> > > > >> >> > Xmas holidays (!), I have certainly racked up the equivalent
>> > > > >> >> > of
>> > > a
>> > > > >> >> > novena! BTW, a couple of years ago I noticed my feet were
>> > > slightly
>> > > > >> >> > stiff in the morning and I worried that my flight to the
>> > > > >> >> > kitchen
>> > > for
>> > > > >> >> > a
>> > > > >> >> > mug of coffee could be perilous so I bought one of those
>> > > > >> >> > small
>> > > coffee
>> > > > >> >> > makers for the upstairs and now include a muffin- just to
>> > > > >> >> > rev up
>> > > the
>> > > > >> >> > joints before I seize the day. :-) Anyway, this might be a
>> > > > >> >> > good
>> > > idea
>> > > > >> >> > for any who need to warm/rev up. (This is my machine
>> > > confession.) On
>> > > > >> >> > the other hand, I have been negotiating with the Divine for
>> > > > >> >> > a
>> > > new
>> > > > >> >> > lawn/
>> > > > >> >> > snow guy and I am on the brink of success! lol
>> >
>> > > > >> >> > On Oct 11, 6:28 am, Vam <atewari2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > > >> >> > > Bingo ! * sounding the drums *
>> >
>> > > > >> >> > > But what gives it the merit also renders science blind to
>> > > > >> >> > > much
>> > > that
>> > > > >> >> > > is
>> > > > >> >> > > essential to our humanity, which are abstract and
>> > > > >> >> > > non-material
>> > > ...
>> > > > >> >> > beauty,
>> > > > >> >> > > ethics, morals, truth, compassion, happiness, love, etc.
>> >
>> > > > >> >> > > Albert Einstein expressed is eloquently ... as have
>> > > > >> >> > > several
>> > > others.
>> >
>> > > > >> >> > > There has been much since science overwhelmed us. But
>> > > everytime it
>> > > > >> >> > > has
>> > > > >> >> > > served to delete a part or measure of our humanity,
>> > > > >> >> > > mankind
>> > > has
>> > > > >> >> > > struck a
>> > > > >> >> > > blow at its own foot !
>> >
>> > > > >> >> > > On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 5:46:04 PM UTC+5:30,
>> > > > >> >> > > rigsy03
>> > > wrote:
>> >
>> > > > >> >> > > > I wasn't clear. I was thinking about new ideas and
>> > > inventions
>> > > > >> >> > > > which
>> > > > >> >> > > > made older ideas and inventions obsolete or mere
>> > > > >> >> > > > stepping
>> > > stones
>> > > > >> >> > > > to a
>> > > > >> >> > > > greater truth. Science seems more open to changes and
>> > > advances
>> > > > >> >> > > > for the
>> > > > >> >> > > > most part though Darwin had a struggle but that was
>> > > > >> >> > > > because
>> > > he
>> > > > >> >> > > > stepped
>> > > > >> >> > > > into religious territory which might mean that we are
>> > > > >> >> > > > more
>> > > open
>> > > > >> >> > > > to
>> > > > >> >> > > > change when it does not involve emotions and beliefs
>> > > > >> >> > > > versus
>> > > > >> >> > > > demonstrable facts.
>> >
>> > > > >> >> > > > On Oct 9, 9:08 am, Vam <atewari2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > > >> >> > > > > It will still be more clever than the rest !
>> >
>> > > > >> >> > > > > On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 5:04:27 PM UTC+5:30,
>> > > > >> >> > > > > rigsy03
>> > > wrote:
>> >
>> > > > >> >> > > > > > Until the next cleverest man/woman comes along! :-)
>> >
>> > > > >> >> > > > > > On Oct 8, 5:56 pm, Vam <atewari2...@gmail.com>
>> > > > >> >> > > > > > wrote:
>> > > > >> >> > > > > > > " Machines are only as clever as they have been
>> > > programmed
>> > > > >> >> > > > > > > to
>> > > > >> >> > > > > > > be. In some cases that may mean smarter than some
>> > > humans
>> > > > >> >> > > > > > > for
>> > > > >> >> > > > specific
>> > > > >> >> > > > > > > acts or purposes ... "
>> >
>> > > > >> >> > > > > > > If a machine is programmed by the cleverest man,
>> >
>> > > > >> >> > > > > > > it would not be ' only ' as clever as it has been
>> > > > >> >> > > > > > > programmed
>> >
>> > > > >> >> > > > > > > but it would be more clever than every other man
>> > > > >> >> > > > > > > on
>> > > the
>> > > > >> >> > > > > > > planet !
>> >
>> > > > >> >> > > > > > > On Monday, October 8, 2012 5:01:02 PM UTC+5:30,
>> > > rigsy03
>> > > > >> >> > > > > > > wrote:
>> >
>> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > And certain ants have also figured out how to
>> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > enter
>> > > the
>> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > honey
>> > > > >> >> > bee
>> > > > >> >> > > > as a
>> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > parasite which has an ominous impact on
>> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > pollination.
>> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > Species
>> > > > >> >> > pick
>> > > > >> >> > > > up
>> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > their behaviors from their groups- some are more
>> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > dedicated-
>> > > > >> >> > > > patterns
>> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > can be disrupted.// Anyway, aren't you equating
>> > > worth
>> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > with
>> > > > >> >> > money/
>> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > salary?//Machines are only as clever as they
>> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > have
>> > > been
>> > > > >> >> > programmed
>> > > > >> >> > > > to
>> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > be. In some cases that may mean smarter than
>> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > some
>> > > humans
>> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > for
>> > > > >> >> > > > specific
>> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > acts or purposes but still short of general
>> > > intelligence,
>> > > > >> >> > insight
>> > > > >> >> > > > and
>> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > adaptation.// Old age is not necessarily
>> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > "lousey"
>> > > except
>> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > the
>> > > > >> >> > final
>> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > chapter is death and certain goals were not
>> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > realized
>> > > or
>> > > > >> >> > possible.
>> > > > >> >> > > > Hard
>> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > work/age does not create arthritis- that is a
>> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > myth.
>> > > The
>> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > 12
>> > > > >> >> > year
>> > > > >> >> > > > old
>> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > across the street has arthritis and started some
>> > > exercise
>> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > for
>> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > violinists.
>> >
>> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > On Oct 7, 9:51 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com>
>> > > wrote:
>> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > The archaeological evidence is that such
>> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > things as
>> > > the
>> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > move
>> > > > >> >> > to
>> > > > >> >> > > > > > farming
>> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > from hunter-gathering did not improve the
>> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > human
>> > > lot for
>> > > > >> >> > those
>> > > > >> >> > > > who
>> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > cleared and dug sod (arthritis etc. from the
>> > > work).
>> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > The
>> > > > >> >> > obvious
>> > > > >> >> > > > > > issue
>> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > for present society concerns the
>> >
>> > ...
>> >
>> > read more »- Hide quoted text -
>> >
>> > - Show quoted text -
>
> --
>
>
>



--
(
)
|_D Allan

Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.


I am a Natural Airgunner -

Full of Hot Air & Ready To Expel It Quickly.

--