Re: Mind's Eye UFO's: Fact or Fantasy?

I'm inclined to see answers with god or everything in them like
miracle balls in cricket or the miracle pass in rugby. Trying them
usually prevents the hard work and odd spark that might win he game.
What I want to know is what we can reasonably hope to do on this
planet in the constraints and future of technology including a moral
technology of work and reward. This might give is a time-scale on
which to go UFO. I suspect one reason for UFO stories is to brand
such non-conventional 'wisdom' as belief in doing our best with what
we've got as conspiratorial.

On 1 Oct, 05:25, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I do feel better it seem it takes longer to recover though  I am greatful
> the one before the last one was  a year and half ago.
>
> Now of I could get rid of weird dreams... Tonights was a pelican up
> chucking a live cat  with physical side effects.. Did manage to write it
> down.
>
> The only religion part of the discussion is my personal belief that the
> entirety universe is physically made up of God as I understand him.
> Allan
> On Oct 1, 2012 5:41 AM, "James" <ashkas...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > I am left outside science and religion on this Allan, perhaps we have some
> > of that in common. Sending complex biological organisms through
> > interstellar space doesn't sound efficient if there are any alternatives.
> > Going up the spectrum of biotech advancements at some unknown point a
> > species might be able to choose not just the technological method but
> > innovate the medium of transport itself.
>
> > Perhaps they would kindly drop me a mental note explaining why determinism
> > is accurate, except when it is not, and how that could make any sense.
> > Perhaps another medium is atemporal, but we are rooted here and now. What
> > part of us could possibly lie outside the massive barriers of physics, I'm
> > still looking for answers myself. What I see as plain and common as gravity
> > leads me right here feeling dumb as a box of rocks.
>
> > Purpose is a frightening notion.. I don't resent that some have found
> > answers so much as it seems people latch on answers for security, maybe
> > I'll demand my dog to tell me what 6*7 is tomorrow. ;-) Hope your recovery
> > is going well Allan, you are sounding better.
>
> > Yikes, belated welcome to the group Bill!
>
> > On 9/28/2012 10:27 PM, Allan H wrote:
>
> >> Why can not our or for that matter any other alien body else where be
> >> .nothing more than a vehicle for the soul?
> >> Allan
>
> >> On Sep 29, 2012 3:17 AM, "archytas" <nwte...@gmail.com
> >> <mailto:nwte...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> >>     It strikes me Bill that UFO stories and thinking about the future and
> >>     better places (heaven etc) can be part of science.  We have no answers
> >>     to what we are doing here other than speculation.  I tend to think the
> >>     economic world is religiously organised as a control fraud - this
> >>     aspect of religion bothers me a lot and the spiritual does not.
> >>     Reporting in UFOs (and such matters as spontaneous human combustion)
> >>     is so naff I can't get interested.
>
> >>     We would generally wonder why we don't know human and cosmic purpose
> >>     and consider this a disadvantage hard to imagine a benevolent creator
> >>     giving us.  The Spartans, at least in myth, sent their male kids out
> >>     to cope in the wild.  It would be good if mum and dad turned up in a
> >>     space-ship with an explanation.
>
> >>     On 28 Sep, 22:33, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com
> >>     <mailto:nwte...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>      > We live on a hill between two rivers Allan.  The town here
> >>     floods, but
> >>      > its such a dump now we don't go there.  The weather in NW England
> >> is
> >>      > pretty bad generally, but this has been a very bad summer as
> >> opposed
> >>      > to standardly bad.  I'm off to the dog track at Belle Vue on
> >> Saturday
> >>      > night - just for a daft night out.  I expect a few 'alien runners'
> >>      > there!
>
> >>      > If there is intelligent life elsewhere I expect they won't be
> >> animal
> >>      > like us.  Evolution is red in tooth and claw in part, but also
> >> about
> >>      > cooperation and Borg-like integration of species.  Whilst I see
> >> mind
> >>      > as a lot to do with brain processing, evidence mounts that this is
> >>      > only part of the story - some ants that are enslaved now act in
> >>      > rebellion against there masters with no 'hope' of improving their
> >> own
> >>      > individual condition, presumably on behalf of the rest of their
> >>      > species. I expect aliens to be able to be able to do the Borg thing
> >>      > and make use of what is biologically and technically available to
> >>     make
> >>      > themselves and not be stuck with our lusts for reproduction.  My
> >>     guess
> >>      > is such assimilation would not be to dominate or produce 'drones'.
>
> >>      > On he speed of light we know it depends on the medium it is
> >>     travelling
> >>      > in, slowing to about bicycle speed in a Bose-Einstein condensate,
> >>      > almost stopping in such and emerging as a matter wave.  If gravity
> >>      > exists we don't know how fast it travels or how fast space expands.
> >>      > The issue of quantum stuff like instantaneous knowing in wave
> >>     equation
> >>      > systems in which the bits 'know' each other remains.
>
> >>      > Other species are nw only with us in assimilation or history and
> >> our
> >>      > fate may be little more.  We are only special in made-up stories of
> >>      > god, origin and heroes we know are trash.  One of my questions
> >> about
> >>      > robot heaven or advanced inter-galactic society is why anyone would
> >>      > risk human beings spoiling it!
>
> >>      > On 28 Sep, 13:28, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com
> >>     <mailto:rigs...@yahoo.com>> wrote:
>
> >>      > > What about the Elysian Fields for fallen heroes and the blessed-
> >>      > > mentioned in the Odyssey and Aeneid? I worry about the
> >>     non-heroes and
> >>      > > esp. those who are massacred and dumped in a pit or potter's
> >> grave
> >>      > > with no ceremony. But I do agree, we dabble in heaven and hell
> >>     during
> >>      > > our lifetimes. For instance, a bad marriage is compared to Hell-
> >>      > > true! :-) A sensory delight of the flesh or palate is compared to
> >>      > > Heaven. The afterlife was popular in early Christianity to give
> >> the
> >>      > > poor hope but later you could buy your way into heaven with
> >>      > > indulgences and the guilt remains, perhaps, with charities and
> >>      > > volunteerism. I have a more practical view but let's face it-
> >>     people
> >>      > > want easy answers, easy fixes/exits.
>
> >>      > > On Sep 28, 12:17 am, William L Houts <luka...@gmail.com
> >>     <mailto:luka...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> >>      > > > I wonder if humans do dream of uncorrupted worlds, in
> >>     general. You'd
> >>      > > > think that would be universal, and it does seem to be borne
> >>     out by
> >>      > > > Western mythologies, with some exceptions.  For instance, the
> >>     Greeks had
> >>      > > > Olympus, but except for Heracles no one got to go there;
> >>     everyone else
> >>      > > > went to Hades, which was gloomy and boring if you were lucky
> >>     enough to
> >>      > > > land there in general population, and terrifying if the gods
> >>     put you in
> >>      > > > Tartarus.  And the Romans didn't seem to place faith in any
> >>     sort of
> >>      > > > afterlife at all, which is one of the main reasons
> >>     whyChristianity sold
> >>      > > > like hotcakes.  Eastern religions such as Buddhism had
> >>     various hells and
> >>      > > > heavens, but they were sort of besides the point:  your karma
> >>     is / was
> >>      > > > supposed to boil down to nothing and liberate you from the
> >>     Wheel of
> >>      > > > Rebirth, which was supposed to put you  in Nirvana, which was
> >>     less a
> >>      > > > Heaven than it was a Nowhere. And Taoism doesn't have much to
> >>     say about
> >>      > > > heavenly afterworlds;  its whole point is to make this world
> >>     more just
> >>      > > > and balanced and leaves heavens to the individual to figure
> >> out.
>
> >>      > > > But as to your question of whether humans long for
> >>     uncorrupted worlds, I
> >>      > > > think that besides the Abrahamic religions noone takes them
> >> very
> >>      > > > seriously.  And I think they've got a point:  I mean, if
> >>     you're taking
> >>      > > > your present existence at all seriously, then just what is an
> >>     afterlife
> >>      > > > supposed to be about?  Are we supposed to be eating bonbons
> >>     all day and
> >>      > > > living in some version of American luxury?  I'd like to
> >>     believe in
> >>      > > > Heaven  --which for me looks like a kind of liberal college
> >>     town, with
> >>      > > > libraries and funky old cinema houses-- but all of that seems
> >>     kind of
> >>      > > > empty if there's no gravitas, no seriousness.   Without
> >>     death, without a
> >>      > > > final marker which howls at us, Do what you must do NOW and
> >>     die knowing
> >>      > > > that you've used your life well--without that, I think heaven
> >>     would
> >>      > > > become kind of slouchy and boring, or worse.  Unless, of
> >>     course, what's
> >>      > > > waiting for us on the other side is something superrational but
> >>      > > > beautiful, like being absorbed into the godhead, if such
> >>     there be.
>
> >>      > > > So in answer to your question, I think we do dream of
> >>     uncorrupt worlds,
> >>      > > > but if we examine them too closely, they tend to be bustable
> >> soap
> >>      > > > bubbles. And maybe I lack imagination, but I wonder, how
> >>     could it be any
> >>      > > > other way?  Frankly, I'd like to be told how. I sound
> >>     sensible about all
> >>      > > > of this if a little pessimistic, but in reality I'm a scared
> >>     ex-Catholic
> >>      > > > who is terrified  of death and wants to solve the Big
> >>     Question before
> >>      > > > they're performing Last Rites on his sorry ass.
>
> >>      > > > --Bill
>
> >>      > > > On 9/27/2012 7:20 PM, rigsy03 wrote:
>
> >>      > > > > I wonder where you put the mythological and religious
> >>     other-worldlies-
> >>      > > > > from gods to guardian angels, etc.? Or the construct of
> >> Dante's
> >>      > > > > "Divine Comedy", for instance. Do
>
> ...
>
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