Re: Mind's Eye Re: Deception

What you are saying is the crimes against humanity and murders that
Bush ordered is okay?

You need to buy a new car and put a saddle in it to stay out of the mud.
Allan


On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 12:12 AM, rigsy03 <rigsy03@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Better to sit in the saddle then wrestle in the mud...
>
> On Nov 8, 1:23 pm, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I hope the republicans get off their destructive high horse. Romney is
>> right both sides need to work for the benefit of the whole nation, not just
>> a select few.
>> Allan
>>
>> Matrix ** th3 beginning light
>> On Nov 8, 2012 5:21 PM, "archytas" <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > I was struck that Obama's acceptance speech was prime BA - we could
>> > hardly disagree a word yet have no reason to believe any of it is
>> > happening, will happen and is anything other than an appeal to those
>> > of us with liberal biology - yet we hope it is true and don't think of
>> > the real problems under its sway. Romney was a model democrat in
>> > defeat, accepting the will of the people and praying for his
>> > opponent. More BA as the House will already be beavering away to make
>> > Obama a lame duck fit to serve with a rigsy sauce. It's all, as
>> > Goffman had it, 'face work'.
>> > People my age were all taught Julius Caesar was a great leader who
>> > invaded Britain in 53 AD. In fact, he had been seen off the year
>> > before and couldn't get his lads to board the boats. The barbarians
>> > and Philistines of history turn out to have been much more civilised,
>> > artistic and all round good guys compared with the Greek and Roman
>> > slave-based economies who left us their songs of victory.
>>
>> > On 7 Nov, 13:36, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > One probably needs a critical eye to spot why this paper is itself
>> > > bullshit rigsy - but you seem to have got there from the summary
>> > > above. Judging from the political adverts from the US elections we
>> > > sampled here last night BS has won. Polish friends in the Warsaw Pact
>> > > days, skilled in Soviet hogwash, were well aware the stuff was just
>> > > for public consumption and that the World Bank guff I was supposed to
>> > > disseminate just our form of it. They were quick to see the
>> > > apparatchiks were becoming the entrepreneurchicks following the
>> > > collapse of the wall.
>> > > In Britain one of our MPs is going on an Aussie TV show of the kind
>> > > where they dump you in the jungle with custard and hornets in your
>> > > hair. There is much protest concerning her triviality. My own view
>> > > is we should develop a control experiment from this and find out how
>> > > many we can dispose of in this manner before we notice an adverse
>> > > effect. As an added torture we could perhaps throw this philosopher
>> > > in the mix!
>>
>> > > On 7 Nov, 11:19, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> > > > I suspect the ghost of Diogenes the Cynic is still looking for an
>> > > > honest man.
>>
>> > > > On Nov 5, 10:41 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > > > > This from an academic article sent to me on 'bullshit attacks'.
>>
>> > > > > Walter Carnielli
>> > > > > We want to argue that falling into a specific deceptive reasoning
>> > > > > which
>> > > > > we call bullshit attack is not anything irrational from our side, but
>> > > > > rather a
>> > > > > rational response from an opponent maneuver, and that the entire
>> > > > > episode can
>> > > > > bee seen as a game, where logic and a certain principle of rational
>> > > > > discussion
>> > > > > play essential roles. Indeed, an opponent may act coercively into our
>> > > > > reasoning
>> > > > > process by using irrelevant facts or assertions, and by telling half
>> > > > > truths in such
>> > > > > a way that we feel forced to "complete" the story in a way that
>> > > > > interest the
>> > > > > opponent, perhaps contrary to our own interests.
>> > > > > Even to define what is "to deceive" is not easy. The act of deceiving
>> > > > > would
>> > > > > have to be intentional, and to involve causing a belief - but what
>> > > > > about acting
>> > > > > as to prevent a false belief to be revised by the other person? And
>> > to
>> > > > > act as to
>> > > > > make the other person to cease to have a true belief, or to prevent
>> > > > > the person
>> > > > > from acquiring a certain true belief? Of course one can deceive by
>> > > > > gestures, by
>> > > > > irony and also by just making questions. So there seems to be no
>> > > > > universally
>> > > > > accepted definition of "deceiving" yet; we assume currently a
>> > > > > definition stated
>> > > > > in [17]:
>> > > > > To deceive = to intentionally cause another person to have or
>> > > > > continue
>> > > > > to have a false belief that is truly believed to be false by the
>> > > > > person
>> > > > > intentionally causing the false belief by bringing about evidence on
>> > > > > the basis of which the other person has or continues to have that
>> > > > > false
>> > > > > belief.
>>
>> > > > > Summary. This paper intends to open a discussion on how certain
>> > > > > dangerous kinds
>> > > > > of deceptive reasoning can be defined, in which way it is achieved in
>> > > > > a discussion,
>> > > > > and which would be the strategies for defense against such deceptive
>> > > > > attacks on the
>> > > > > light of some principles accepted as fundamental for rationality and
>> > > > > logic.
>>
>> > > > > Last lines (after much on Tarski and Godel) - Starting from the
>> > > > > understanding that what I am proposing here is not to use methods of
>> > > > > formal or informal logic to analyze fallacies, but to pay due
>> > > > > attention to principles that also affect logic, discerning the
>> > reasons
>> > > > > why we
>> > > > > succumb under a bullshit attack may help us to understand why we
>> > > > > commit
>> > > > > other illusions of reasoning.
>>
>> > > > > Anyone interested can get the full paper from me by email.
>>
>> > > > > On a Theoretical Analysis of Deceiving: How
>> > > > > to Resist a Bullshit Attack
>> > > > > Walter Carnielli
>> > > > > GTAL/CLE and Department of Philosophy–IFCH, State University of
>> > > > > Campinas,
>> > > > > walter.carnie...@cle.unicamp.br
>>
>> > --- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> --
>
>
>



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|_D Allan

Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.


I am a Natural Airgunner -

Full of Hot Air & Ready To Expel It Quickly.

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