Re: Mind's Eye Re: Face To Face

I actually made the mistake of knocking on doors for Blair Vam. We
had to get rid of what was left of Thatcher's Tories. Blair turned
out to be Thatcher in drag. We could once spoil our ballot papers and
have them counted in protest. I haven't voted since the Iraq War.
Gandhi had some fine words - but the lesson is surely we must do
things for ourselves.

We like to imagine politics is deliberative and argumental - but the
reality is more biological. The genuine democracy most of us crave is
everywhere corrupted much as Aristotle claimed. There are working
examples of something potentially better such as the Mondragon
collective. My guess is we can't get to the real argument because
economics is war by other means. "Cunning" British foreign policy has
been at this for centuries - but it's not a British invention.

On 2 Nov, 23:38, Vam <atewari2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The  *Nietzschean*  Zarathustra is not the 101st man come to the party of
> 100. He is the one each of the 100 men could be, but are not. Not yet ...
> He is the one who is in the midst of this futility and is completely free
> and de-identified with it. He seems ... but is done with both seriousness
> and buffoonery, addiction and purity. He does, not what he must on account
> of others nor what might have been in his own past; but because he chooses
> to. He plays the game, and knows the nothingness about it.
>
> Neil : " ... prevent great wealth, militarism and totalitarian abuse." The
> truth is that you did not bring these to the table and will hence never be
> able to take it with you to nearest burial ground. On the hand, you were
> raised within the same politics and economics that carries and perpetuates
> it. You've lived with it and even by it. You elected Blair, then raved
> against him and did what ? ... elected Cameron !
>
> Gandhi could ... and for a time among very large population did raise a
> voice, loud and clear against " great wealth, militarism and
> totalitarian abuse." He had his failures and errors but remains a global
> symbol of that voice within us.
>
> Raves and rants do nothing, though one may need and have a right to.
>
> Thinking ... * Go back and read the OP again *
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Saturday, November 3, 2012 12:38:57 AM UTC+5:30, archytas wrote:
>
> > Seriousness is addictive and purity ends in the nightmare of
> > justifying anything Gabby.
>
> > On 2 Nov, 16:38, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > It's a believers game, Neil. It might seem like a good game from the
> > > ivory tower - with an added shadow feature for a more realistic look
> > > and feel. Just make sure you don't cross their shadows and it remains
> > > a good game. :)
>
> > > On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 3:18 PM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Boxing is an apt metaphor old friend - shadow boxing perhaps - as the
> > > > target won't stand still in argument.  I was hit on the head by a
> > > > cricket ball whilst wicket-keeping but saw no advance in my
> > > > mathematics!
>
> > > > A rule of thumb for sound inference has always been that if it looks
> > > > like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it
> > > > probably is a duck. But there's a corollary: if it struts around the
> > > > barnyard loudly protesting that it's a duck, that it possesses the
> > > > very essence of duckness, that it's more authentically a duck than all
> > > > those other orange-billed, web-footed, swimming fowl, then you've got
> > > > a right to be suspicious: this duck may be a quack.
>
> > > > This is essentially my problem with sages Vam - and clarity in
> > > > argument.  I admire artists who use light for compelling focus (and
> > > > because I draw pin-men badly), but much argument is just a trick of
> > > > the light.  E = mc2 is sharp, memorable and mostly useless - you have
> > > > to add in momentum to understand why light-speed is a limit - and even
> > > > then one must wonder about the Dark Age before light or alternative
> > > > thermodynamic models.
>
> > > > I'm always struck that there are some people of whom we can rightly
> > > > say 'there's no arguing with him/her'.  Gabby plays good games on his
> > > > theme - but they are clearly games over-laying tolerance and good
> > > > sense with humour.  I do think one might have a Paulian change as
> > > > language bewitches less by banging one's head against the wall - but
> > > > mostly it is clear what we should get on with and tat we can do
> > > > nothing unless we prevent great wealth, militarism and totalitarian
> > > > abuse.  Shall we toss for who gets the ball and who to put his head in
> > > > the way Vam?
>
> > > > On 2 Nov, 00:39, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > >> Reminds me of "Rainman"- the character was returned to his asylum
> > > >> after a whirlwind in Vegas. It's more likely that thud would incur a
> > > >> concussion or brain hemorrhage and death if it was a hardball at 95
> > > >> mph.
>
> > > >> On Nov 1, 8:56 am, Vam <atewari2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > >> > Most thinking that men do are a release, a diversion away, a
> > continuous
> > > >> > roll into forgetfulnes and awareness.
>
> > > >> > For instance, Neil keeps trying to box the world and how it is, but
> > at
> > > >> > different interfaces - morals, science, finance, politics,
> > economics,
> > > >> > business, govt... I find he is driven by something invaluable in
> > his heart
> > > >> > that aspires to beauty, dignity, truth and simplicity. That he is
> > prepared
> > > >> > to drive himself for the values he has, go long extra miles, day in
> > and day
> > > >> > out, makes it magnificent.
>
> > > >> > Not that it reaches anywhere, except in the awareness he might
> > raise into
> > > >> > others or tune into the choir. Mostly, it is fiction, which fact
> > takes
> > > >> > nothing away from its paramount worth. I trust these intangible
> > effects. It
> > > >> > is their buildup over time, perhaps several generations, when
> > social values
> > > >> > might swerve towards "profit, as need" over "profit, as motivation"
> > and
> > > >> > "work, as need" over "work, for profit".
>
> > > >> > The world's tale is of the dog's tail. It wouldn't straighten, no
> > matter
> > > >> > all the mega hullabaloo in science, biz, politics or economics. The
> > > >> > momentum of feudal and alpha rot in our psyche will remain. The
> > proletarian
> > > >> > purity of Marx remains a charming chimera. And democracy, that
> > promised
> > > >> > crowning of the ordinary man ... * sigh*
>
> > > >> > Before I end, let me leave a scintillating case with you :
>
> > > >> > Orlando Serrell wasn't born autistic - indeed, his savant skills
> > only came
>
> > > >> > > about after a brain injury.
> > > >> > > In 1979, then ten-year-old Orlando was playing baseball when the
> > ball
> > > >> > > struck him hard on the left side of his head. He fell to the
> > ground but
> > > >> > > eventually got up to continue playing.
>
> > > >> > > For a while, Orlando had headaches. When they went away, he
> > realized he
> > > >> > > had new abilities: he could perform complex calendar calculations
> > and
> > > >> > > remember the weather every day from the day of the accident.
>
> > > >> > From Orlando's official website <
> >http://www.orlandoserrell.com/about.htm>:
>
> > > >> > *What makes Orlando Serrell so unique is that he may indeed hold
> > the key
> > > >> > that unlocks the genius in us all. Orlando Serrell did not possess
> > any
> > > >> > special skills until he was struck in the head by a baseball when
> > he was
> > > >> > 10. And his extraordinary gifts seem to be his only side effect. *
>
> > > >> > *Could this mean once a key hemisphere in the brain is stimulated,
> > we can
> > > >> > all attain the level of genius Orlando posses and beyond ? *
>
> > > >> > *Will time and research really be able to tell ? Do we even need to
> > wait
> > > >> > for that ?*
>
> > > >> > People like Orlando are called "savants", a word with very
> > interesting
> > > >> > nuance to genius. Here's a link with more :
> >http://www.neatorama.com/2008/09/05/10-most-fascinating-savants-in-th...
>
> > > >> > Would a world of savants be really preferable ?
>
> > > >> > But, is science really in a position to replicate Orlando effect to
> > genius
> > > >> > abilities ?
>
> > > >> > I know Neil will give charge to his imagination and sci-fi fancy.
>
> > > >> > But, Neil, my scientist friend, you really believe every 10 year
> > old can be
> > > >> > given the equivalent of a baseball thud on left side of his head
> > and stand
> > > >> > up to be a genius from then on ?
>
> > > > --

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