Re: Mind's Eye Re: Science and religion in modernity

But it's not impossible rigsy.

On 1 Nov, 14:54, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Literature tries to be tidy but life is not so something is always
> "wanting".
>
> On Nov 1, 7:47 am, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
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> > MIT have a current exhibition that seems to get somewhere near my
> > interest -http://arts.mit.edu/wp-content/uploads/Holocene-PR-Final.pdf
>
> > This is some of the blurb -
>
> > Through the work of artists spanning from the 19th to the 21st
> > centuries, the exhibition proposes that art acts as an investigative
> > and experimental form of inquiry, addressing or amending what is
> > explained through traditional scientific or
> > mathematical means: entropy, matter, time (cosmic, geological),
> > energy, topology, mimicry, perception,
> > consciousness, et cetera. Sometimes employing scientific methodologies
> > or the epistemology of science, other
> > times investigating phenomena not restricted to any scientific
> > discipline, art can be seen as a form of
> > investigation into the physical and natural world. In this sense, both
> > art and science share an interest in
> > knowledge and phenomena, yet are subject to different logics,
> > principles of reasoning, and conclusions. In the
> > Holocene suggests that art is itself an account of the world, and can
> > expand the potential of
> > investigative and experimental activity.
> > Emblematic of the central premise of the exhibition, Germaine Kruip's
> > film Aesthetics as a Way of Survival
> > (2009) documents the phenomenon in which the male bowerbird arranges
> > colored objects as part of its
> > courtship display, suggesting an aesthetic faculty at work even within
> > evolutionary behavior. Friedrich Fröbel
> > devised a pedagogical system centered on childhood learning through
> > color and form. Helen Mirra's sculptures
> > address geological time and extremophile forms of living matter.
> > Robert Smithson's interest in crystallography and
> > entropy are reflected in both his Four-Sided Vortex (1965) and
> > Partially Buried Woodshed (1970). Daria
> > Martin's Sensorium Tests (2012) revolves around a recently recognized
> > neurological condition called "mirror—
> > touch synaesthesia." For FT Marinetti, abstract mathematical objects
> > could stimulate in his readers the
> > subjective experience of the sounds, smells, and motions of modern
> > life; Iannis Xenakis' Diamorphoses (1957)
> > and Mycenae Alpha (1978) utilize mathematical operations as
> > compositional strategies for creating music.
> > Alfred Jarry's "pataphysics," John Latham's "Time—Base Theory," and
> > João Maria Gusmão and Pedro Paiva's
> > "Abyssology" are all examples of speculative systems of knowledge
> > constructed by the artists to address gaps
> > in historical, philosophical, and scientific discourse.
>
> > I resist chocolate-box aesthetics (however posh) and appreciation done
> > to establish superiority of sophistication and am wary of concepts of
> > elegance and beauty applied to science (most scientists I've known
> > thick of this as 'waiting for a blow-job from God' - the world always
> > proves untidy).  In a way, I hope art might light up (say) the
> > financial system in a way extended argument cannot.  I've just
> > finished a novel trying to do this, but can't get it to work - but how
> > could it when most of our shared concepts from literature are the
> > blocks to understanding?
>
> > On 23 Oct, 04:34, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > What a pleasure to read these recents posts.//I've noticed the
> > > politicians aren't saying much to retirees unless they think we are
> > > over the hill and expendable- except we tend to VOTE.// I only have
> > > one pair of reader glasses that are rx. I can get by with cheapies for
> > > cooking and shopping but the eye doctor told me this was not a very
> > > bright plan. One eye will not get the right whatever.// I have been
> > > rearranging closets and dressers of late and can't remember where I
> > > have switched things so it has been a riot trying to dress.//I did
> > > come across a line of Matthew Arnold's that a little math goes a long
> > > way for most of humanity and remembered my amazement walking into the
> > > wrong classroom and seeing four or five blackboards covered with some
> > > algebraic "work of art"- for it is an art.// I don't really need a lot
> > > of money but it just costs a lot to live in western economies built on
> > > self-sufficiency rather than tribal respect for the wise elders. :-)
>
> > > On Oct 22, 12:22 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > I have real problems remembering where I left my glasses (though not
> > > > the ones with beer in) - even the IMF are considering the old Chicago
> > > > Plan  (1936) for fairer money.  We live as paupers in the land of
> > > > plenty in my view.http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/wp/2012/
> > > > wp12202.pdf
>
> > > > It's long and boring, but the gist is in the short conclusion.  It
> > > > lacks your insight into what we are worshipping Al.
>
> > > > On 22 Oct, 07:27, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > People are expected to change and grow. the errors of the  past are
> > > > > meant to be out grown and evolved into a life that is kinder and
> > > > > gentler with others coming to the forefront leaving the self centered
> > > > > being behind,,  As I look around I am left wondering if this is what
> > > > > is occurring,,  I see wealth being more and more concentrated in the
> > > > > greedy few..  I see the traditional higher power being replaced by a
> > > > > god of gold and wealth, that is worshiped with immense intensity..
> > > > > an intensity that if applied to eliminating poverty ,, poverty would
> > > > > be eliminated world wide within a few short years.
>
> > > > > I have not forgotten anything to my knowledge Neil  I can remember my
> > > > > childhood to date in great detail  recall is not the problem and fear
> > > > > well that is more to keep me from getting killed..  I tend to like
> > > > > invisibility  good idea
> > > > > Allan
>
> > > > > On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 11:36 PM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > With memories as bad as mine and yours Allan we have to invent for
> > > > > > fear of remembering we have forgotten everything.
>
> > > > > > On 21 Oct, 19:00, Allan H <allanh1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > >> What happens when your whole concepts begin changing..   strange
> > > > > >> things like the entire universe becomes small  and you have to go out
> > > > > >> side its bounds..  Being a soul being what happens if the creation
> > > > > >> soul is earlier than than the creation of the universe?
> > > > > >> Allan
>
> > > > > >> On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 6:09 PM, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > >> > Science doesn't fascinate me in the way some literature and people can
> > > > > >> > generally - I suspect the 'enthusiasm' of the popularisation of the
> > > > > >> > subjects.  I concur on the predicament element rigs - insightive.  It
> > > > > >> > seems a mistake to me to try and place god in some scientific-
> > > > > >> > dimensional space (though I miss Pat) and I wonder instead whether the
> > > > > >> > god-positions people hack out are as baseless as, say, phlogiston - we
> > > > > >> > need some new thinking.
>
> > > > > >> > Science and critical history have demonstrated much religious text is
> > > > > >> > fable.  We repeatedly see that image management hides much that is
> > > > > >> > foul under 'preaching' - here our current examples would be Jimmy
> > > > > >> > Saville, Baby P, priestly paedophiles and Hillsborough (scouting in
> > > > > >> > the US etc.) - but I'd say we may be on the brink of realising
> > > > > >> > economics is equally vile.
>
> > > > > >> > I can imagine spending a few weeks with a group living human-
> > > > > >> > constrained lives in a collective of the future.  A woman kisses me
> > > > > >> > goodbye.  She will not see me again because I'm off to a near-space
> > > > > >> > terminal built off Alpha Proxima.  From there I'm relativity
> > > > > >> > travelling to the edge of this universe to undertake genetic
> > > > > >> > transformation beyond the gene-splicing that has allowed me to travel
> > > > > >> > in space.  I see in 16 colours thanks to a shrimp and can enter
> > > > > >> > cryostasis thanks to genes from Arctic fish.  I interface with
> > > > > >> > machines and their learning directly.  I can no longer replicate as a
> > > > > >> > human - etc.  Now I'm off to meet and form a collective with beings
> > > > > >> > who perceive much of the world we can only postulate.  In traditional
> > > > > >> > science fiction these 'dark beings' would be bastards intent on taking
> > > > > >> > over the human world.  What I don't see is any focus on a future in
> > > > > >> > which the rather soppy human-emotional ties are broken - a future in
> > > > > >> > which ...
>
> > > > > >> > One might ask how the creature I have become would get his jollies.
> > > > > >> > One can go the other way in history and ask what religion has actually
> > > > > >> > done.  We are not inventive enough about god.
>
> > > > > >> > On 21 Oct, 14:50, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > >> >> And some feel science is boring unless it can be translated into
> > > > > >> >> everyday life in meaningful ways.
>
> > > > > >> >> On Oct 20, 3:50 pm, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > >> >> > We travel at 60k plus miles an hour in the solar system and 500K
> > > > > >> >> > through the galaxy in our system.  I tend to believe we can measure
> > > > > >> >> > this kind of thing and that we are always left with questions like
> > > > > >> >> > Allan's about before after and beyond.  Hitch-hikers' Guide probably
> > > > > >> >> > gets to the irony.  Quite a few of us discount priests and text-
> > > > > >> >> > authority without giving up on spirit.  Spinoza remains the clearest
> > > > > >> >> > example.
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> > > > > >> >> > Creation stories end up in infinite regress - scientific and otherwise
>
> ...
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